WPF--Why? No, Really!
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Ray Cassick wrote:
I was wishing that there would be some basic conversion tools to get a basic windows forms app converted over to using WPF.
Nowhere near done, but interesting... http://wf2wpf.codeplex.com/[^]
Shog - I've just voted for you as moderator on Stack Overflow.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Like most of you, I spend my days (and many nights) in the trenches, and have for nearly 30 years. I came up through assembly to C through C++ to C#, and a bunch of other stuff as side trips along the way. Having come from a place where there were NO IDE's to ease my pain, I'm supremely grateful for the ability to drag controls onto a form, smoosh 'em around, set some properties and be up and running with a skeleton to flesh out and deliver. I do NOT work with or have access to a graphic artist, nor do I wish to. Anyway, for the last several months on and off, I have attempted to come to grips with WPF, and I've finally arrived at the conclusion that it's just not worth the effort! In general, it's more work and more frustration for MUCH less functionality! Come on, MS! If I want to tinker endlessly with markup, I'll write in HTML, and likely have something that works in much less time and effort. To obtain the same level of useability I get with Windows Forms apps using WPF takes unbelieveable amounts of time and effort. Latest and greatest, my achin' posterior! Am I wrong? What am I missing here, folks?? Too busy for the MS merry-go-round, Duane Doutel
You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
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Shog - I've just voted for you as moderator on Stack Overflow.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Also the "Start Page". Of course it has been totally useless for me.
Ya know, I'm the only programmer on my team that doesn't have the Start Page active and that has the last opened project load when VS is started. I'm also the only one on the team that codes for fun at home...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Ya know, I'm the only programmer on my team that doesn't have the Start Page active and that has the last opened project load when VS is started. I'm also the only one on the team that codes for fun at home...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
SoapBox 2.0 is for posting things you'd really rather not be read...
...and for humor that requires more than a few active cerebral synapses to "get". For instance, subtle humor with a large dose of irony about Swine Flu and Muslims doesn't pass muster here in the Lounge. I've found that a joke posted in the Lounge has to be at least a year old and contain no more than one multi-syllable word.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Start Page
I disable the start page; it has no part in productivity... not like CP.
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You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
I'm with you. I prefer to retain more control over what's going on.
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You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
wout de zeeuw wrote:
I'm not sold on linq for DB access either.
I am not quite sold on it either.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Like most of you, I spend my days (and many nights) in the trenches, and have for nearly 30 years. I came up through assembly to C through C++ to C#, and a bunch of other stuff as side trips along the way. Having come from a place where there were NO IDE's to ease my pain, I'm supremely grateful for the ability to drag controls onto a form, smoosh 'em around, set some properties and be up and running with a skeleton to flesh out and deliver. I do NOT work with or have access to a graphic artist, nor do I wish to. Anyway, for the last several months on and off, I have attempted to come to grips with WPF, and I've finally arrived at the conclusion that it's just not worth the effort! In general, it's more work and more frustration for MUCH less functionality! Come on, MS! If I want to tinker endlessly with markup, I'll write in HTML, and likely have something that works in much less time and effort. To obtain the same level of useability I get with Windows Forms apps using WPF takes unbelieveable amounts of time and effort. Latest and greatest, my achin' posterior! Am I wrong? What am I missing here, folks?? Too busy for the MS merry-go-round, Duane Doutel
BTW, some poor slob from MS just posted a message about an upcoming XamlFest in the WPF forum. Add your cynicism to mine. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I dunno - I guess I'm just cut from different material - I think it's called chainmail...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
MS is trying to dumb it down so that anyone that's ever written HTML in a web page can feel empowered to write an enterprise-level application.
That a framework can be accused simultaneously of being too complex and too dumbed down shows that it truly is a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't kind of situation for MS.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
Apologist. The simple fact is that WPF is just wrong.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I disable the start page; it has no part in productivity... not like CP.
I remove all the toolbars too. You can never have too much usable screen real estate
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Judah Himango wrote:
Given they're using it all over the place in the next version of VS
You do realize that all they are using it for is the text editor (and related intellisense pop-ups) right? Unless that's recently changed...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
Yeah. The text editor. That massive thing that has to support intellisense, regions, syntax highlighting, squigglies, multiple computer languages, multiple human languages, debugger support. Oh, and a massive list of existing 3rd party extensions and add-ons. Yeah, that text editor...
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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Yeah. The text editor. That massive thing that has to support intellisense, regions, syntax highlighting, squigglies, multiple computer languages, multiple human languages, debugger support. Oh, and a massive list of existing 3rd party extensions and add-ons. Yeah, that text editor...
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
It's crap - you can tell by your description.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
It's crap - you can tell by your description.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Yeah. I was describing the current VS editor.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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You are right sir. Don't just blindly follow their lead, MS does some great stuff, but they also screw up once in a while. I put WPF and a lot more of .NET 3.5 in the screw up bin (250 MB download, WTF???). Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either. I'm gonna lean back a year or two and see what's left standing at that point.
Wout
wout de zeeuw wrote:
Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either
It is disappointing to read these negative comments, since I have only recently started looking at LINQ, and was beginning to think it might turn out to be useful. Haven't done a lot with DB access yet though.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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I disable the start page; it has no part in productivity... not like CP.
It's quicker than the file menu to open a recent project. It needs to sepuku immediately after doing that however. :mad:
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
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Ya know, I'm the only programmer on my team that doesn't have the Start Page active and that has the last opened project load when VS is started. I'm also the only one on the team that codes for fun at home...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
has the last opened project load when VS is started.
Where's that feature hidden?
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
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wout de zeeuw wrote:
Also I'm not sold on linq for DB access either
It is disappointing to read these negative comments, since I have only recently started looking at LINQ, and was beginning to think it might turn out to be useful. Haven't done a lot with DB access yet though.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Maybe I'm getting old and resistant to change! But let us know if you find compelling arguments for moving over to WPF/linq. As a business app developer I'm not so much charmed by fancy looks or elegant looking short syntax, I just need to get the job done quick and not run into an obscure dead (albeit advanced) end (like if you started on linq to sql? Tough luck!).
Wout