WPF Rocks!
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
Ok, popcorn's ready. Now to put my feet up and watch the show. :-D
The StartPage Randomizer - The Windows Cheerleader - Twitter
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
Styles and control templates were the first things that appealed to me. Data-binding and animation (for stuff like slide-in slide-out, fade-in fade-out) would be next. And yes, I've used them in actual apps. One reason a lot of folks like the Outlaw programmer are disappointed with WPF is that they are trying to use WPF for LOB apps, and while that's definitely possible - designer support is still kind of incomplete. Perhaps VS 2010 will finally enable LOB app developers to fully embrace WPF with the same ease as with WinForms.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
Databinding Layout Templates
Software Kinetics - Moving software
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Ok, popcorn's ready. Now to put my feet up and watch the show. :-D
The StartPage Randomizer - The Windows Cheerleader - Twitter
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Ok, popcorn's ready. Now to put my feet up and watch the show. :-D
The StartPage Randomizer - The Windows Cheerleader - Twitter
Nope! I don't intend it to become a flame war. It is just people voicing their opinion about what they like about something. I will have a similar WPF Sucks! thread.
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Styles and control templates were the first things that appealed to me. Data-binding and animation (for stuff like slide-in slide-out, fade-in fade-out) would be next. And yes, I've used them in actual apps. One reason a lot of folks like the Outlaw programmer are disappointed with WPF is that they are trying to use WPF for LOB apps, and while that's definitely possible - designer support is still kind of incomplete. Perhaps VS 2010 will finally enable LOB app developers to fully embrace WPF with the same ease as with WinForms.
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkI gotta say that I agree with you on all counts. Styles and templates rock, data binding is cool, and the animation stuff really makes the stuff look polished. Can't wait fro SL3 though. Tons of stuff that I wanted to do and could not are coming. as far as VS support goes, I personally like using Blend, but there needs to be some work there also (ie: intellisense and usability stuff) to take it seriously. When doing SL stuff I always use Blend for the UI and VS for the code. I like working in the separate environments for some reason, not sure why.
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
Or at least it doesn't suck as much as other UI frameworks I have worked with (OWL, MFC, VB6, AWT, WinForms). As for WPF - no idea. Currently no plans to spend any time on that.
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Or at least it doesn't suck as much as other UI frameworks I have worked with (OWL, MFC, VB6, AWT, WinForms). As for WPF - no idea. Currently no plans to spend any time on that.
OWL was superior than MFC, but unfortunately wasn't as mainstream.
Software Kinetics - Moving software
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Or at least it doesn't suck as much as other UI frameworks I have worked with (OWL, MFC, VB6, AWT, WinForms). As for WPF - no idea. Currently no plans to spend any time on that.
WTL is for little girls. You know what you should be using...
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Oh
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
I like the 100MB overhead feature the most for a few buttons and few lines, and some of the most bizzare painting performance on desktop supercomputers to date. Certainly the most bloated technology out there. No matter what, data binding is just performing so bad that anything updating frequently, well you can kiss your dual Quad-core goodbye as just 1-single-uno app will be eating most of it. It has been like that since first iteration all the way to 3.5SP1. If VS2010 is anything to judge by you can expect MSFT forcing you for yet another upgrade on Intel's account balance for a moderately complex project choking in UI and IntelliSense (and it is less-effective by minute because the two work together and call it 'a feature' of modern-day-bloatware-all-upgrade-programming ). And those flashy, incosistent, hungry and Eclipse-like-time-dragging WPF UIs are simply candy crowds get high on for a period it takes to have a summer ice-cream, and sugar wears-off to depression (especially as you start composing controls in XAML and see how expensive it really gets). So came Vista, and that trend is not going to end.. what a waste of carbon, energy and glossy lipstick for over 4 years now.. When they do Office in WPF, then it might be stable and polished enough to chase (if ever). Why bother beforehand, because it is 'cool and style-able' ? I took that pill and ported the WinForm bits and cannot regret more doing something that has such a massive marketshare out there it accounts for 0-MSFT-apps to-date that are completely written in that 'tech'. It came from the IE-explorer team and new bloat-it-Java-style MS geeks, and man that browser is just all over the places and pieces.. Long-term yes it make sense but when something takes so long to fix, it just tells a story that is XAML today ( pure verbosity, pure penalties, and lots of workarounds and steep curves for equivalent result that will one day be done by Designers-Only ! ).. All yours..
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
I have a collection of LOB apps that are about 14 years old. All built on MFC. Some dialog based, others MDI based and even a couple of console apps that include MFC. Database access however uses a third party supplied library, Oracle Objects for OLE. Everything is C++ and we've never looked at changing or migrating simply because as we've gone through various versions of VS and MFC, nothing of significance has ever broken. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Control templates
I was at a MS event on WPF. One of the MS developers was describing how you can re-template a control. Then he went on to say that instead of re-templating it was usually a better idea to just buy a control that already does what you want. I got a laugh out of that coming form somebody on MS payroll. Here's a new feature, I recommend you not use it.
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
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... If you feel that it does, give me the feature(s) that appeal the most to you. Features when you first saw made you say Wow!. Now, the second part of this question: Did you actually use that feature in an actual real-world application? My answers: Features: 1. Databinding. (Even though winforms is close). 2. Control templates Yes I did use the features in a real world application. 1. The use of data-binding enabled writing pure XAML UI components with no code behind in the UI layer. (except at a few places where not more than 3 lines of code where used per method). Although in the model layer INotifyPropertyChanged had to be implemented. 2. Control/Data templates - Enabled tree view display hierarchy in an horizontal manner such as those in organization charts.
Off the top of my head: Data Binding Layout engine Data Binding Dependency Properties/Attached Properties Data Binding Templating Data Binding Resolution Independence Did I mention Data Binding at all? Now, I don't have the problems with VS and WPF that John has, so my experience has been good - we can crank out solid LOB applications in a fraction of the time that we used to, and the fact that our designer can restyle the interface to suit the client is a good thing as far as our bottom line goes. Yes there's a learning curve. Yes, it's different to Win Forms, but once the pieces fit together it's very difficult to go back. If you want to knock out quick LOB apps, then you should take a look at Karl Shifflett's XAML Power Toys[^] and my own MoXAML Power Toys[^] - both for Visual Studio.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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I like the 100MB overhead feature the most for a few buttons and few lines, and some of the most bizzare painting performance on desktop supercomputers to date. Certainly the most bloated technology out there. No matter what, data binding is just performing so bad that anything updating frequently, well you can kiss your dual Quad-core goodbye as just 1-single-uno app will be eating most of it. It has been like that since first iteration all the way to 3.5SP1. If VS2010 is anything to judge by you can expect MSFT forcing you for yet another upgrade on Intel's account balance for a moderately complex project choking in UI and IntelliSense (and it is less-effective by minute because the two work together and call it 'a feature' of modern-day-bloatware-all-upgrade-programming ). And those flashy, incosistent, hungry and Eclipse-like-time-dragging WPF UIs are simply candy crowds get high on for a period it takes to have a summer ice-cream, and sugar wears-off to depression (especially as you start composing controls in XAML and see how expensive it really gets). So came Vista, and that trend is not going to end.. what a waste of carbon, energy and glossy lipstick for over 4 years now.. When they do Office in WPF, then it might be stable and polished enough to chase (if ever). Why bother beforehand, because it is 'cool and style-able' ? I took that pill and ported the WinForm bits and cannot regret more doing something that has such a massive marketshare out there it accounts for 0-MSFT-apps to-date that are completely written in that 'tech'. It came from the IE-explorer team and new bloat-it-Java-style MS geeks, and man that browser is just all over the places and pieces.. Long-term yes it make sense but when something takes so long to fix, it just tells a story that is XAML today ( pure verbosity, pure penalties, and lots of workarounds and steep curves for equivalent result that will one day be done by Designers-Only ! ).. All yours..
User of Users Group wrote:
When they do Office in WPF, then it might be stable and polished enough to chase (if ever).
It's not office, but the VS2k10 editor will be done in WPF, so that's one flagship application. Office is still raw32 (not even MFC); it's too big to do a ground up rewrite regardless of how much it may be needed.
User of Users Group wrote:
I took that pill and ported the WinForm bits and cannot regret more doing something that has such a massive marketshare out there it accounts for 0-MSFT-apps to-date that are completely written in that 'tech'.
MS has used .net in most (all) of their new web based back office apps. AFAIK they haven't created any major new desktop apps since .net came out. If they had I'm almost certain they would've.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
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I like the 100MB overhead feature the most for a few buttons and few lines, and some of the most bizzare painting performance on desktop supercomputers to date. Certainly the most bloated technology out there. No matter what, data binding is just performing so bad that anything updating frequently, well you can kiss your dual Quad-core goodbye as just 1-single-uno app will be eating most of it. It has been like that since first iteration all the way to 3.5SP1. If VS2010 is anything to judge by you can expect MSFT forcing you for yet another upgrade on Intel's account balance for a moderately complex project choking in UI and IntelliSense (and it is less-effective by minute because the two work together and call it 'a feature' of modern-day-bloatware-all-upgrade-programming ). And those flashy, incosistent, hungry and Eclipse-like-time-dragging WPF UIs are simply candy crowds get high on for a period it takes to have a summer ice-cream, and sugar wears-off to depression (especially as you start composing controls in XAML and see how expensive it really gets). So came Vista, and that trend is not going to end.. what a waste of carbon, energy and glossy lipstick for over 4 years now.. When they do Office in WPF, then it might be stable and polished enough to chase (if ever). Why bother beforehand, because it is 'cool and style-able' ? I took that pill and ported the WinForm bits and cannot regret more doing something that has such a massive marketshare out there it accounts for 0-MSFT-apps to-date that are completely written in that 'tech'. It came from the IE-explorer team and new bloat-it-Java-style MS geeks, and man that browser is just all over the places and pieces.. Long-term yes it make sense but when something takes so long to fix, it just tells a story that is XAML today ( pure verbosity, pure penalties, and lots of workarounds and steep curves for equivalent result that will one day be done by Designers-Only ! ).. All yours..
You sound like Johnny Depp in Fear and Loathing. :laugh:
You really gotta try harder to keep up with everyone that's not on the short bus with you. - John Simmons / outlaw programmer.