How to convince customer to choose C# instead of VB.net?
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Write it in C# and then use SharpDevelop for auto VB.NET conversion. Heck just use it and you'll both benefit. Same GC-ed crap, different color..
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
If the customer is paying, the customer gets what he wants. If VB is more work for you than C#, reflect that in the price you charge.
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
If they want it in VB.Net, write it in VB.Net (they're writing the big check, after all). The idea that VB.Net is "easier" or "costs less" to maintain is a mistake he'll soon learn. If your relationship with said customer is "cozy", you might want to prod him a little to change (and give him numbers - don't just go in and say "we want to do it in C# because VB sucks" - show him how much ANY .Net programmer costs, and he may see the light), but don't push too hard, or you'll lose the contract. As is evidenced by my post about MediaPortal source, the best code in the world simply sucks if it's not commented/documented well. If he wants it easy to maintain, you have top provide copious documentation to explain the architecture. I hope the time to produce such documentation was factored into your contract bid.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Uwe Keim wrote:
it will be easier for him to maintain it later
The customer will be supporting the application.
Uwe Keim wrote:
from our developers point-of-view
You are not supporting the application, he is. Many people are convinced that a diesel engine runs better, lasts longer, and gets better mileage, but, if the CUSTOMER is planning to maintain his own vehicle and is NOT familiar with a diesel engine, pushing him to buy one will only push him away. Tim
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Thank you all for your kindly feedback!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Maybe if you show him some of your code you could convince him that it's essentially equivalent to VB give or take a few begin/ends. If you make a commitment to not using any C# not available in VB (eg ?:, or ++) then that might help. But in the end the code has to be in the format that suits the person who will be living with it longest.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
I wouldn't take the job.
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Uwe Keim wrote:
How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net?
You don't, just because VB is outside your comfort zone is not enough reason. Support of an app is much more important than development and lasts longer. Your client is making the correct decision for HIM. If you are not up to doing the job to the same quality in VB as in C# then you need to inform the client. One argument you may use (I used it recently to move from VB to C#) is the availability of resources and I used CP forum stats to back it up.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Simple, if you don't like the terms, then walk away. They are the customer. Clearly they didn't contract for advice on what programming language is the best to use, they want an application written to solve a problem and THEY will have to maintain it after you leave. They obviously have a knowledge base in the VB area and want to leverage that (a business decision) so why not give them what they ask for?
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
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If they want it in VB.Net, write it in VB.Net (they're writing the big check, after all). The idea that VB.Net is "easier" or "costs less" to maintain is a mistake he'll soon learn. If your relationship with said customer is "cozy", you might want to prod him a little to change (and give him numbers - don't just go in and say "we want to do it in C# because VB sucks" - show him how much ANY .Net programmer costs, and he may see the light), but don't push too hard, or you'll lose the contract. As is evidenced by my post about MediaPortal source, the best code in the world simply sucks if it's not commented/documented well. If he wants it easy to maintain, you have top provide copious documentation to explain the architecture. I hope the time to produce such documentation was factored into your contract bid.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
As is evidenced by my post about MediaPortal source, the best code in the world simply sucks if it's not commented/documented well. If he wants it easy to maintain, you have top provide copious documentation to explain the architecture. I hope the time to produce such documentation was factored into your contract bid.
I'm always torn about this concept. Poorly architected spaghetti code isn't magically understood with comments and documentation. On the flip side, in the process of learning ASP.NET MVC I've downloaded about 10 different open source projects and rummaged through the code. The projects from accomplished developers are easy to grok even without comments or documentation. As to the OP, if the customer wants VB.net then the customer gets VB.net unless you can convince them otherwise with a valid argument. I don't think "we find it easier to read C#" is a valid argument however. With an open mind I'm sure an experienced C# developer can get used to VB.net within a few weeks. Almost everyone has a semi-negative reaction to other people's code formating and different languages.
Todd Smith
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
As is evidenced by my post about MediaPortal source, the best code in the world simply sucks if it's not commented/documented well. If he wants it easy to maintain, you have top provide copious documentation to explain the architecture. I hope the time to produce such documentation was factored into your contract bid.
I'm always torn about this concept. Poorly architected spaghetti code isn't magically understood with comments and documentation. On the flip side, in the process of learning ASP.NET MVC I've downloaded about 10 different open source projects and rummaged through the code. The projects from accomplished developers are easy to grok even without comments or documentation. As to the OP, if the customer wants VB.net then the customer gets VB.net unless you can convince them otherwise with a valid argument. I don't think "we find it easier to read C#" is a valid argument however. With an open mind I'm sure an experienced C# developer can get used to VB.net within a few weeks. Almost everyone has a semi-negative reaction to other people's code formating and different languages.
Todd Smith
Todd Smith wrote:
Poorly architected spaghetti code isn't magically understood with comments and documentation.
But when you force yourself to write the supporting documentation, you generally recognize where the crappy code is, and you generally stop and re-factor it. At least, I do.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Write it in C# and then use SharpDevelop for auto VB.NET conversion. Heck just use it and you'll both benefit. Same GC-ed crap, different color..
At the end I would do that as well. Convince them that VB is evil! :)
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(Hopefully this is not a programming question) We are about to develop a larger project and the customer wants it to be VB.net since he argues that he is firm with VB.net and therefore it will be easier for him to maintain it later. On the other hand, from our developers point-of-view, VB.net is a nightmare in terms of readability and syntax. So my question is: How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net? Thanks for any hints, directions and arguments!
• My personal 24/7 webcam - Always live ;-) • Zeta Producer Desktop CMS - Intuitive, completely easy-to-use. Try out and download here now! • Zeta Uploader - Easily send large files by e-mail. Windows and web client available.
Uwe Keim wrote:
How to convince the customer to choose C# instead of VB.net?
You don't. If the customer said "no" to C#, you need to accept that answer. I agree that C# can be easier to work with, but only if you already know the language. If your customer isn't familiar with C#, the syntax will look like gibberish to him, and he isn't going to be able to maintain it like he wants to do. Besides, most contract work is "work for hire," meaning that it's his code, not yours, so you need to write it to his specs, regardless of whether that's what you prefer to do. Ed
