good programmer
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Oh go on then. Try here[^], for a start (you missed this years event, but just hanging around the group mailing list is enough to start anyone learning. Most of the C++ Standards Committee hang around there, for a start. And how many web forums do you know that have a "compiler writers mentored learning group"...?). You can of course do the same here on CP, if you take the effort to step back from the code and learn the right techniques to improve how you do things rather than just staying in the IDE and coding. I would say however that even with 15 years commercial experience (and 8 years of being here, at that) I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago. See? no unemployment necessary. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago
Strange thing is, I've leant how NOT to apply agile and TDD by contracting with some 'agile' companies :D
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i am not a workaholic, for the most part it's involuntary really and so-many-hours-week is just hypnotically mechanical. Diet... I think i been taking in too many microwave meals. My wife vegan, she gave up trying to convince me of the importance of healthy diet. I have a better routine than her when it comes to exercise though. But suppose I just need to take a day off. thanks anna
dev
Anytime. I usually find that when something is obviously wrong, taking a step back and looking at things with an open mind is a good first step to fixing things. Good luck! :rose:
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago
Strange thing is, I've leant how NOT to apply agile and TDD by contracting with some 'agile' companies :D
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I bet. Rule of thumb: if a company calls themselves "agile", they probably aren't. Score them on their answers to the Joel test instead. ;)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
Well you are absolutely right: good programmers run their own business, like me! ;P Hehe seriously, you do have a point there, and one for which I feel quite a lot! Long ago I made my decision not to work for those "long hours+politics+fire fighting" projects, cause they will just destroy one's life AND one's passion for coding. Running my own small software house and choosing medium sized, interesting projects is leaving me a fair amount of free time for my hobbies (programming, coding and developing... ^^) and for enjoying life with my wonderful wife and my friends. I hope I can keep it going till the end! Well it worked for the last 15 years, so let's hope. :)
2+2=5 for very large amounts of 2 (always loved that one hehe!)
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devvvy wrote:
err... so by same token Bush was elected.
I didn't know Bush was a programmer. :rolleyes:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
wait... perhaps a simpler example: how do you explain britney, she's (well *was*) in demand.
dev
devvvy wrote:
wait... perhaps a simpler example: how do you explain britney, she's (well *was*) in demand.
In some circles she still is. :~
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Absolutely not. Sure, others might consider them to be acronyms, but they're not. I'm specifically pointing at the misnomer Software Engineer. An Engineer, plans, designs, architects and builds things in a disciplined manner. An Engineer takes care that what he does will stand up to the test and more, an Engineer will "do things right" as opposed to "just get it done". "It just Works" is not a part of the Engineer's lexicon "this is how it works" is. Most of all, an Engineer will take responsibility for his/her code, especially when it fails. My $0.02
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Yeah, I get that. What I was referring to is that the hierarchy of responsibilities between an engineer, developer, programmer, analyst, etc... require a different overall mind set of a solution, and having one person to fill those spots ends up causing delays\issues due to the ability to make that mental context switch. Ones view at a higher level can get muddied because they spend so much time concentrating on the nitty gritty low level details.
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Absolutely not. Sure, others might consider them to be acronyms, but they're not. I'm specifically pointing at the misnomer Software Engineer. An Engineer, plans, designs, architects and builds things in a disciplined manner. An Engineer takes care that what he does will stand up to the test and more, an Engineer will "do things right" as opposed to "just get it done". "It just Works" is not a part of the Engineer's lexicon "this is how it works" is. Most of all, an Engineer will take responsibility for his/her code, especially when it fails. My $0.02
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
devvvy wrote:
To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours
You can't get away from long hours.
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Completely, its a sad day when we can't tell what separates this from that.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Completely, its a sad day when we can't tell what separates this from that.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
its a sad day when we can't tell what separates this from that.
er... from? There you can have a happy day now. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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And you think I wasn't working when I was learning? I run my own company, and believe me it's easily a 60 hour a week job keeping on top of everything... Prior to that I was working full time and learning. No different other than shorter hours, really. If you are tired, you may want to take a step back and look at how your day runs. I've found a decent diet, regular exercise (I run for at least half an hour most days) and better time management makes up for a lot. Even with 2 hrs of commuting a day (which I don't have to do now, thankfully) I was still able to keep learning at quite a rate. If I can do that while coping with a (very regular, unfortunately) 3 day migraine once a month, I'm sure you can find a way somehow. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
If I can do that while coping with a (very regular, unfortunately) 3 day migraine once a month
Oh wow, does that sound awful X|. I sympathize, as my migraines have only come under control in the last five years or so. Given that it's so regular, do you have a recognizable trigger for it?
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Absolutely not. Sure, others might consider them to be acronyms, but they're not. I'm specifically pointing at the misnomer Software Engineer. An Engineer, plans, designs, architects and builds things in a disciplined manner. An Engineer takes care that what he does will stand up to the test and more, an Engineer will "do things right" as opposed to "just get it done". "It just Works" is not a part of the Engineer's lexicon "this is how it works" is. Most of all, an Engineer will take responsibility for his/her code, especially when it fails. My $0.02
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: The Fifth Elephant by Terry Pratchett Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Which is why my job title is listed as 'computer engineer', not 'programmer', not 'software engineer', or any of the fluffy bunny titles like 'technology evangelist' or that sort of crap. I spent five long hard years earning a degree in computer engineering (Wright State University, class of '84, go Raiders!). I've spent the 25 years learning my trade from some of the best (and some of the worst) people in the business. I believe these two factors give me the right to call myself an engineer, as opposed to the self-assumed term that most people use.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
You are right. It is a twisted logic
You should see my code, it would blow your mind ;)
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A sample of MidwestLimey's production code:
10 PRINT "MIDWEST LIMEY IS GREAT!" 20 GOTO 10
Not mind blowing, per se, but I like what you did with the GOTO.
print "http://www.codeproject.com".toURL().text Ain't that Groovy?
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
Whoo hoo! I'm a good programmer! Ah well, too bad your theory is wrong. You can never become a good programmer without working in a variety of environments with a variety of programmers who are better than you. Plus, although I certainly have time to develop whatever I like, I'm not motivated to do so. And even if I did, without any sort of peer review, I'd never have anyone to point out any shortcomings in it.
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
If you don't enjoy the fire fighting, don't find a quantum of solace in the long hours, and can't deal with the politics, you are not much of a programmer, just a code monkey. (No doubt, you might be a good code monkey, but still..)
Don't attribute to stupidity what can be equally well explained by buerocracy.
My latest article | Linkify!| FoldWithUs! | sighistmodified on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:01 PM
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Whoo hoo! I'm a good programmer! Ah well, too bad your theory is wrong. You can never become a good programmer without working in a variety of environments with a variety of programmers who are better than you. Plus, although I certainly have time to develop whatever I like, I'm not motivated to do so. And even if I did, without any sort of peer review, I'd never have anyone to point out any shortcomings in it.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
h well, too bad your theory is wrong.> What did you just prove that?You can never become a good programmer without working in a variety of environments with a variety of programmers who are better than you.> I agree. but at some point you will lack behind in latest development unless you don't work for a sweatshop (don't get me wrong they can be reputable firms).Plus, although I certainly have time to develop whatever I like, I'm not motivated to do so. And even if I did, without any sort of peer review, I'd never have anyone to point out any shortcomings in it.> You haven't seen firefight and long hours mate, if you do, you'd have trouble finding time to actually have a date.
dev
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
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PIEBALDconsult wrote:
h well, too bad your theory is wrong.> What did you just prove that?You can never become a good programmer without working in a variety of environments with a variety of programmers who are better than you.> I agree. but at some point you will lack behind in latest development unless you don't work for a sweatshop (don't get me wrong they can be reputable firms).Plus, although I certainly have time to develop whatever I like, I'm not motivated to do so. And even if I did, without any sort of peer review, I'd never have anyone to point out any shortcomings in it.> You haven't seen firefight and long hours mate, if you do, you'd have trouble finding time to actually have a date.
dev
devvvy wrote:
You haven't seen firefight and long hours
Sure I have, when I was employed. Such are learning experiences any good programmer (or whatever) needs; anyone who hasn't been tested by adversity can't truly claim to have mastered his craft. It would be like a pool (billiards) player who practices at home constantly, but never enters a tournament.