What determines matter's position in space?
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The initial momentum 7 femtoseconds after its creation plus the vector sum of all its subsequent interactions with other particles, minus a smidgen for the times when it was totally dark.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
minus a smidgen
smidgen - (n) small pigeon...
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Its physical properties?
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Roger Wright wrote:
The initial momentum 7 femtoseconds after its creation plus the vector sum of all its subsequent interactions with other particles, minus a smidgen for the times when it was totally dark.
So it is the interactions with the forces around it and the subsequent reactions that determine its position? What if it is a single particle or string in space? What determines its position then?
The same things. Things like gravity are properties of matter. Roger covered it as basically as possible. If you are truly interested, decide what kind of "single particle" you are talking about and read about how it interacts with other matter.
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Roger Wright wrote:
minus a smidgen
smidgen - (n) small pigeon...
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
In Space?
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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In Space?
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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This is the continuing story about a quack... who's gone to the dogs!! Pigs in Space - End of the Universe[^]
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
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Roger Wright wrote:
The initial momentum 7 femtoseconds after its creation plus the vector sum of all its subsequent interactions with other particles, minus a smidgen for the times when it was totally dark.
So it is the interactions with the forces around it and the subsequent reactions that determine its position? What if it is a single particle or string in space? What determines its position then?
I'm no professional physicist, but my early training leads me to believe that the equivalence of matter and energy means that all of this is a matter of energetics - exchanges and transformations of energy states via interactions with other entities. If a particle could exist isolated in space, then it could have no motion or position, because both are meaningless without a frame of reference. If such a particle had existence, that implies to me that it must have an energy state, and in its vast loneliness would contrive to split itself, distributing its energy into other particles to play with. It's possible that this would explain the Big Bang. It's equally possible that I'm a figment of your imagination, or that I'm simply full of shit. ;P
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Roger Wright wrote:
minus a smidgen
smidgen - (n) small pigeon...
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
That would explain the periods of darkness - a pigeon will eat anything, even small theoretical particles. If this theory holds water, it would imply that all the known universe is composed of pigeon excrement, which would explain the smell hereabouts on a hot day, but does little to extend the range of Man's knowledge of the universe.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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That would explain the periods of darkness - a pigeon will eat anything, even small theoretical particles. If this theory holds water, it would imply that all the known universe is composed of pigeon excrement, which would explain the smell hereabouts on a hot day, but does little to extend the range of Man's knowledge of the universe.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
Man's knowledge of the universe
It's no better or worse than other theories I reckon!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
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I'm no professional physicist, but my early training leads me to believe that the equivalence of matter and energy means that all of this is a matter of energetics - exchanges and transformations of energy states via interactions with other entities. If a particle could exist isolated in space, then it could have no motion or position, because both are meaningless without a frame of reference. If such a particle had existence, that implies to me that it must have an energy state, and in its vast loneliness would contrive to split itself, distributing its energy into other particles to play with. It's possible that this would explain the Big Bang. It's equally possible that I'm a figment of your imagination, or that I'm simply full of shit. ;P
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
If a particle could exist isolated in space, then it could have no motion or position, because both are meaningless without a frame of reference.
A great way to look at it. Additionally, gravity extends to infinity. So, unless Hines here were somehow able to create a pocket universe with only a single particle it is not reasonable to discuss such thing.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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That would explain the periods of darkness - a pigeon will eat anything, even small theoretical particles. If this theory holds water, it would imply that all the known universe is composed of pigeon excrement, which would explain the smell hereabouts on a hot day, but does little to extend the range of Man's knowledge of the universe.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Roger Wright wrote:
If a particle could exist isolated in space, then it could have no motion or position, because both are meaningless without a frame of reference.
A great way to look at it. Additionally, gravity extends to infinity. So, unless Hines here were somehow able to create a pocket universe with only a single particle it is not reasonable to discuss such thing.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
gravity extends to infinity
I have a problem with theories like that. I recently attended a class on using current transformers for measuring currents in power distribution lines, and asked a question of the instructor. I thought it was a simple question, "What is the maximum diameter of a current transformer, with respect to the conductor diameter passing through it, to yield an accurate measurement?" Apparently it wasn't an easy question. The instructor wrote down my question and went back to his company to ask the engineers, then he phoned me weeks later with the answer, "It doesn't matter." I don't buy it. In case you don't know, a current transformer is a multi-turn loop of wire on a toroid, placed around a single conductor carrying the current to be measured. According to theory, all current passing through the hole in the toroid will couple with the conductors around the toroid in an inverse proportion to the number of turns. So, theoretically, if I have a CT with 10 turns, with a conductor carrying 1 amp in the middle, the CT output should be 1/10 amp. That actually works in practice, but one normally uses a CT that isn't more than a few times the diameter of the primary conductor. But what if I'm measuring a current of 1 amp on a 20 gauge wire, but the only CT I have in stock is 10' in diameter? Theoretically, it "doesn't matter." In practice, though, I don't believe that all the flux generated by that tiny wire will ever reach the CT core, let alone correctly register the measured value. It has to do with the value of M - the mutual inductance - of the physical setup, and I'm surprised that no one in the industry has explored it. Some day I'm going to test it, since it seems that no one else ever has in the power industry. Infinity is a great concept for mathematicians, but in the real world it gets a little vague. I'm thinking there's something equivalent to M in the arena of gravitation, and some physical properties control how far gravity can extend its influence. I haven't a clue how to check that, but somebody ought to. I'll bet my physics professors breathed a collective sigh of relief when I changed my major to electrical engineering... :-O
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... and looking for a "real" solution?
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Is this a general question or do you need to determine where some matter is?
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Depends on how much it matters to the other objects in space.
The world is a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed. —Sean O’Casey, Playwright
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Mass determines its size and gravitational relationship with other objects, and velocity determines its relative position to objects it's moving toward/away from/along with/past. The cool thing to do would be to set a universal "Home" point, and map everything's position and movement relative to that. I vote for either Greenwich Observatory or my belly button.
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I suspect it may depend on when a particle was born. If a particle came into being a 0+1 attosecond then its relation to a particle that came into being at 0+10 attoseconds will differ to its relation to a particle that came into being at 0+100 attoseconds. The question is, can two particles come into being simultaneously - maybe not as then they'd both want to be in the same place at the same time. Perhaps that's what they call anti-matter :confused:
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modified on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:22 AM
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Roger Wright wrote:
The initial momentum 7 femtoseconds after its creation plus the vector sum of all its subsequent interactions with other particles, minus a smidgen for the times when it was totally dark.
So it is the interactions with the forces around it and the subsequent reactions that determine its position? What if it is a single particle or string in space? What determines its position then?
Intel 4004 wrote:
What if it is a single particle or string in space? What determines its position then?
Simple - it can't be determined.
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The space which it has occupied, with relative to the space occupied by other things at the time of observation (given that both the objects are observed from the same frame of reference and space-time co-ordinates).
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... and looking for a "real" solution?
Don't attribute to stupidity what can be equally well explained by buerocracy.
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