A large tower in Paris or...
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Seeing as 1500 people have passed through here and asked what C# and .NET are, I'm going to ask what may seem to most like a stupid question, but I really need to know :laugh: What exactly, preferably in words of one and two syllables, is Eiffel? I don't need anything really in-depth, I'm more interested in whether I should care or not. Nearly every mention I've seen of it comes in the same sentence as (M)C++, so I'm beginning to think I should know more about it than I actually do. I'm willing to look up that detail myself, if it's worth the effort, but I'm looking for a three-line overview here so I can make that decision. :-D Thanks Paul
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Seeing as 1500 people have passed through here and asked what C# and .NET are, I'm going to ask what may seem to most like a stupid question, but I really need to know :laugh: What exactly, preferably in words of one and two syllables, is Eiffel? I don't need anything really in-depth, I'm more interested in whether I should care or not. Nearly every mention I've seen of it comes in the same sentence as (M)C++, so I'm beginning to think I should know more about it than I actually do. I'm willing to look up that detail myself, if it's worth the effort, but I'm looking for a three-line overview here so I can make that decision. :-D Thanks Paul
It is a programming language. ;-) Norm Almond: I seen some GUI's in my life but WTF is this mess ;-) Leppie: I made an app for my sister and she wouldnt use it till it was colorful enough:) Norm:good point leppie, from that statement I can only deduce that this GUI must be aimed at children:laugh: Leppie:My sister is 25:eek: -Norm on the MailMagic GUI
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Seeing as 1500 people have passed through here and asked what C# and .NET are, I'm going to ask what may seem to most like a stupid question, but I really need to know :laugh: What exactly, preferably in words of one and two syllables, is Eiffel? I don't need anything really in-depth, I'm more interested in whether I should care or not. Nearly every mention I've seen of it comes in the same sentence as (M)C++, so I'm beginning to think I should know more about it than I actually do. I'm willing to look up that detail myself, if it's worth the effort, but I'm looking for a three-line overview here so I can make that decision. :-D Thanks Paul
I got interested in it a couple of yrs back from a post on a newsgroup. Eiffel = POOP (Pure OOP ) IMHO: The language/environment appears to be better than C++ . ( better is a very subjective word ) Things like GC etc are in it by nature. The big difference with C++ is "design by contract". Even if it's "better" doesn't mean it'll become mainstream though. FLARE looks good as well. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Seeing as 1500 people have passed through here and asked what C# and .NET are, I'm going to ask what may seem to most like a stupid question, but I really need to know :laugh: What exactly, preferably in words of one and two syllables, is Eiffel? I don't need anything really in-depth, I'm more interested in whether I should care or not. Nearly every mention I've seen of it comes in the same sentence as (M)C++, so I'm beginning to think I should know more about it than I actually do. I'm willing to look up that detail myself, if it's worth the effort, but I'm looking for a three-line overview here so I can make that decision. :-D Thanks Paul
Eiffel is a language designed by Bertrand Meyer. He is the author of Object Oriented Software Construction which is supposed to be one of the seminal works on OO. It's a tome that I don't own yet, mainly due to it's cost. Eiffel emphasises Design By Contract and readable code. More info is available at www.eiffel.com[^] Paul Riley wrote: so I'm beginning to think I should know more about it than I actually do. You probably should, but not for any commercial reason. Knowing different languages definitely helps you as a programmer. Be multi-lingual. Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
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Eiffel is a language designed by Bertrand Meyer. He is the author of Object Oriented Software Construction which is supposed to be one of the seminal works on OO. It's a tome that I don't own yet, mainly due to it's cost. Eiffel emphasises Design By Contract and readable code. More info is available at www.eiffel.com[^] Paul Riley wrote: so I'm beginning to think I should know more about it than I actually do. You probably should, but not for any commercial reason. Knowing different languages definitely helps you as a programmer. Be multi-lingual. Cheers The universe is driven by the complex interaction between three ingredients: matter, energy, and enlightened self-interest.
Thanks to all. Just to pick up on one point: Mr Morden wrote: You probably should, but not for any commercial reason. Knowing different languages definitely helps you as a programmer. Be multi-lingual. :-D Funnily enough, I'm trying to limit how many new languages I learn thanks to .NET. I've already had jobs in COBOL, VB(+Script), Java(+Script), InstallScript, C, C++ and now I'm doing a job in C#, not to mention other stuff I learned before I ever got a job or in my spare time since I started. I kind of want to become really good at less languages instead of pretty good at several. (Okay, I could honestly say that I'm really good at COBOL but I'd prefer it wasn't that one :-D) However, I am expected to know something about everything and as hard as I'm trying to avoid anything else new, if Eiffel is joining the .NET fray then it's in danger of becoming significant. Okay, I'm making excuses... my name is Paul and I have a problem. I'm addicted to learning programming languages... Paul
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Thanks to all. Just to pick up on one point: Mr Morden wrote: You probably should, but not for any commercial reason. Knowing different languages definitely helps you as a programmer. Be multi-lingual. :-D Funnily enough, I'm trying to limit how many new languages I learn thanks to .NET. I've already had jobs in COBOL, VB(+Script), Java(+Script), InstallScript, C, C++ and now I'm doing a job in C#, not to mention other stuff I learned before I ever got a job or in my spare time since I started. I kind of want to become really good at less languages instead of pretty good at several. (Okay, I could honestly say that I'm really good at COBOL but I'd prefer it wasn't that one :-D) However, I am expected to know something about everything and as hard as I'm trying to avoid anything else new, if Eiffel is joining the .NET fray then it's in danger of becoming significant. Okay, I'm making excuses... my name is Paul and I have a problem. I'm addicted to learning programming languages... Paul
Paul Riley wrote: I kind of want to become really good at less languages instead of pretty good at several. I agree - but at least with .NET if you know one of the .NET langauges you pretty well know the others - once you know the semantics of a .NET language then you can code quite quickly in all as they all use the same framework. I've been involved in many languages (out of all them I do miss OCCAM - but at least the folding editor has returned) Paul Riley wrote: Okay, I could honestly say that I'm really good at COBOL but I'd prefer it wasn't that one I do believe there is a COBOL.NET lurking around somewhere Article at Fudge the Issue[^]
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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Thanks to all. Just to pick up on one point: Mr Morden wrote: You probably should, but not for any commercial reason. Knowing different languages definitely helps you as a programmer. Be multi-lingual. :-D Funnily enough, I'm trying to limit how many new languages I learn thanks to .NET. I've already had jobs in COBOL, VB(+Script), Java(+Script), InstallScript, C, C++ and now I'm doing a job in C#, not to mention other stuff I learned before I ever got a job or in my spare time since I started. I kind of want to become really good at less languages instead of pretty good at several. (Okay, I could honestly say that I'm really good at COBOL but I'd prefer it wasn't that one :-D) However, I am expected to know something about everything and as hard as I'm trying to avoid anything else new, if Eiffel is joining the .NET fray then it's in danger of becoming significant. Okay, I'm making excuses... my name is Paul and I have a problem. I'm addicted to learning programming languages... Paul
Paul Riley wrote: Funnily enough, I'm trying to limit how many new languages I learn thanks to .NET. I've already had jobs in COBOL, VB(+Script), Java(+Script), InstallScript, C, C++ and now I'm doing a job in C#, not to mention other stuff I learned before I ever got a job or in my spare time since I started. Cool. One thing though. They are all very similar. Try something very different. Perhaps a pure OO language like Smalltalk, or a functional language like Haskell. Each would bring something new to your programming experience. I do agree with you though. You do need to build up your skills in one language, do that in your job, and spend your 'spare' time learning something different.
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Paul Riley wrote: I kind of want to become really good at less languages instead of pretty good at several. I agree - but at least with .NET if you know one of the .NET langauges you pretty well know the others - once you know the semantics of a .NET language then you can code quite quickly in all as they all use the same framework. I've been involved in many languages (out of all them I do miss OCCAM - but at least the folding editor has returned) Paul Riley wrote: Okay, I could honestly say that I'm really good at COBOL but I'd prefer it wasn't that one I do believe there is a COBOL.NET lurking around somewhere Article at Fudge the Issue[^]
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Shaun Wilde wrote: I do believe there is a COBOL.NET lurking around somewhere :hands over ears, singing a tune: Not listening. I'm trying to avoid knowing this. Don't ever want to go back down the COBOL road. Lalala! Paul
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Paul Riley wrote: Funnily enough, I'm trying to limit how many new languages I learn thanks to .NET. I've already had jobs in COBOL, VB(+Script), Java(+Script), InstallScript, C, C++ and now I'm doing a job in C#, not to mention other stuff I learned before I ever got a job or in my spare time since I started. Cool. One thing though. They are all very similar. Try something very different. Perhaps a pure OO language like Smalltalk, or a functional language like Haskell. Each would bring something new to your programming experience. I do agree with you though. You do need to build up your skills in one language, do that in your job, and spend your 'spare' time learning something different.
Londo wrote: Cool. One thing though. They are all very similar. :wtf: You could get shot in here for saying things like this. ;) Java, InstallScript and C have many similarities; C++ is a derivative of C; C# is a derivative of C++ and VB. I think that's about as far as the relationships go. Londo wrote: Try something very different. Perhaps a pure OO language like Smalltalk, or a functional language like Haskell. I've done a bit of Smalltalk, kinda cool I've just never worked with it professionally. Don't know quite what you mean by functional, but doesn't COBOL fall in there? Paul
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Londo wrote: Cool. One thing though. They are all very similar. :wtf: You could get shot in here for saying things like this. ;) Java, InstallScript and C have many similarities; C++ is a derivative of C; C# is a derivative of C++ and VB. I think that's about as far as the relationships go. Londo wrote: Try something very different. Perhaps a pure OO language like Smalltalk, or a functional language like Haskell. I've done a bit of Smalltalk, kinda cool I've just never worked with it professionally. Don't know quite what you mean by functional, but doesn't COBOL fall in there? Paul
Paul Riley wrote: You could get shot in here for saying things like this. ;P Paul Riley wrote: Java, InstallScript and C have many similarities; C++ is a derivative of C; C# is a derivative of C++ and VB. I think that's about as far as the relationships go. Don't know about InstallScript, but aside from VB they all have a fairly similar syntax. There are large differences sure C++ is OO, C isn't. C# is 'simpler' than C++. But they are all designed to make the transition from one to the other as easy as possible. Paul Riley wrote: Don't know quite what you mean by functional, but doesn't COBOL fall in there? COBOL, C++, Pascal, (if I've got my terminology right) are procedural languages. The execute procedures. A functional language evaluates expressions rather than executing commands. There's a FAQ at http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh//faq.html[^]
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Paul Riley wrote: You could get shot in here for saying things like this. ;P Paul Riley wrote: Java, InstallScript and C have many similarities; C++ is a derivative of C; C# is a derivative of C++ and VB. I think that's about as far as the relationships go. Don't know about InstallScript, but aside from VB they all have a fairly similar syntax. There are large differences sure C++ is OO, C isn't. C# is 'simpler' than C++. But they are all designed to make the transition from one to the other as easy as possible. Paul Riley wrote: Don't know quite what you mean by functional, but doesn't COBOL fall in there? COBOL, C++, Pascal, (if I've got my terminology right) are procedural languages. The execute procedures. A functional language evaluates expressions rather than executing commands. There's a FAQ at http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~gmh//faq.html[^]
Londo wrote: Don't know about InstallScript InstallScript is sort of like any other scripting language but with some nifty functions that you're only ever going to use in an installer (AddIcon, to pick an example off the top of my head). Londo wrote: but aside from VB they all have a fairly similar syntax. COBOL is nothing like VB or any kind of C. Yes it is procedural, now that I understand what you mean, but that's about as far as the relationship goes. But it's basically just a structured reporting language (ie. you'd never design a COBOL program using a UML or even a flow chart any more than you'd design a C++ program using Jackson's Structure Diagrams). I'll have a good look at these functional languages. I have looked at similar things before but found little interest in them. Paul