Do you run Antivirus/AntiMalware? [modified]
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
I run AV on all my systems, not because they provide *better* protection, but it watches my back for the single time I may be overlooking. In all my life, I never had a single incident that arose from my action. I pretty much have closed system, No IM, No email attachment unless from reliable source ( I'd deleted multiple email attachments from friends/family without even touching them), safer web browsing. But do I feel like ditching AV completely, why? certainly I don't touch Norton or McAfee, unless it is work computer and that is what they decided to use. For personal use I am sticking with AVG and Avant.
Yusuf May I help you?
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AVG, cos it is free.
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
... and better than the junks ;) you know who they are, don't you?
Yusuf May I help you?
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
Naw, i don't bother either. I've had machines infected by worms before, when AV software was installed and did nothing; meanwhile, i've gone years on machines that i'm careful about quickly installing patches on, avoiding dodgy websites, emails, Internet Explorer, etc... And no problems.
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
I'm like you. I never have a virus checker on my home PC if I am the only one who will be using it. I do noscript[^] to block javascript on any site I visit unless I whitelist them. Like you I do occasional download something an run a full system scan just to check, but I've never had a virus yet. For other people I always install something for them, I usually recommend one of the free ones like avira or avg.
Simon
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
No, I don't run one. I'm the only one on my machines and haven't been infrected by a virus since 1991, and that time, I did it intentionally. Anyone remember Michelangelo?? Like you, I just run one of the free ones every now and then, and always come up with the same results - nothing found.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
     2006, 2007, 2008 -
Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
No. I agree, the main problem is user ignorance. Unless somebody did a DNS redirect, then the risk of me getting a virus is tiny. I only use a small portion of the Internet. Common sense is far more effective than an AV in most cases
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
I don't run AV and haven't for a very long time. I got one virus about five years back when an official Disney or Pokemon site got hijacked. The virus was benign and I since learned that McAfee (the program I'd been using) wouldn't have caught it anyway. (My son inadvertently downloaded adware twice, but after being educated, that ended.) What really persuaded me to stop wasting my money was when the logs for various programs never showed they did anything and then my install of Antivir (or Avast) got in a loop where every day it updated itself and then kept popping up notifications that it needed to be updated, please reboot. (It was far, far more annoying than any virus or spyware I'd ever seen.) I pulled Antivir off one system and AVG off the other; both became more stable as a result (seriously; even my family noticed--one day my wife asked me what I'd done to our slow computer because it ran faster, didn't crash anymore.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
I have a couple of things to say about this article and some of the statements made by people here: About The Article I found it very interesting that while the author repeatedly states these "experts" use other tools/procedures, in place of AV and personal firewalls, not once are those procedures and tools mentioned. If they are so great, then share this wealth of knowledge. "Yes", I'm sure I can come up with plenty of things on my own, as all of you can/could, but if you're going to write about not using AV software, and state how the experts use other means/tools, then talk about those means/tools, otherwise shut the hell up, because you're not providing information that is useful what-so-ever. Seriously what useful information did that article provide you all? The only thing I took away from it was "Security Experts that say use AV, don't use it themselves, so there". About What Some of You have Stated "I don't run AV software or personal firewalls, and never have, and I've never been infected" - I love this statement. So ... how exactly do you know you're machine is not infected with a Root Kit or a Trojan if you're not running AV software? Yea, maybe if you have a good firewall, and you've blocked all outgoing ports, and you continuously check logs, you might be able to make that statement; assuming your firewall hasn't also been hacked, or the hacks aren't using common ports ... like port 80. Or piggy backing off another valid process, in which case, even looking at your log files won't hint that something is wrong. There are many Trojans/Virus out there today that are so complex, if you weren't running AV or Malware software, there's not a chance in hell you'd know you're machine was infected. You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself. Yes I know AV software doesn't catch everything; many "zero day" attacks get through, but your chances of getting a Trojan/virus are far greater by not running AV software. Think of it this way: The Internet is like a Call Girl, everyone gets their turn. You don't know where everyone's been. You're going to use the internet ... now ... don't you think you should be wearing a condom????? Yes you can still get HIV even when wearing one, but your chances are GREATLY reduced if you do. My computers don't just wear one, they have three ... (see below) As for myself I have a H/W firewall, I use AV software and I have a personal firewall on my home machi
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I have a couple of things to say about this article and some of the statements made by people here: About The Article I found it very interesting that while the author repeatedly states these "experts" use other tools/procedures, in place of AV and personal firewalls, not once are those procedures and tools mentioned. If they are so great, then share this wealth of knowledge. "Yes", I'm sure I can come up with plenty of things on my own, as all of you can/could, but if you're going to write about not using AV software, and state how the experts use other means/tools, then talk about those means/tools, otherwise shut the hell up, because you're not providing information that is useful what-so-ever. Seriously what useful information did that article provide you all? The only thing I took away from it was "Security Experts that say use AV, don't use it themselves, so there". About What Some of You have Stated "I don't run AV software or personal firewalls, and never have, and I've never been infected" - I love this statement. So ... how exactly do you know you're machine is not infected with a Root Kit or a Trojan if you're not running AV software? Yea, maybe if you have a good firewall, and you've blocked all outgoing ports, and you continuously check logs, you might be able to make that statement; assuming your firewall hasn't also been hacked, or the hacks aren't using common ports ... like port 80. Or piggy backing off another valid process, in which case, even looking at your log files won't hint that something is wrong. There are many Trojans/Virus out there today that are so complex, if you weren't running AV or Malware software, there's not a chance in hell you'd know you're machine was infected. You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself. Yes I know AV software doesn't catch everything; many "zero day" attacks get through, but your chances of getting a Trojan/virus are far greater by not running AV software. Think of it this way: The Internet is like a Call Girl, everyone gets their turn. You don't know where everyone's been. You're going to use the internet ... now ... don't you think you should be wearing a condom????? Yes you can still get HIV even when wearing one, but your chances are GREATLY reduced if you do. My computers don't just wear one, they have three ... (see below) As for myself I have a H/W firewall, I use AV software and I have a personal firewall on my home machi
Douglas Troy wrote:
There are many Trojans/Virus out there today that are so complex, if you weren't running AV or Malware software, there's not a chance in hell you'd know you're machine was infected. You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself.
There are plenty of Worms / Malware out there today that are so complex, that if you were running AV or Malware software, you might still be infected and not know it. You might like to tell yourself otherwise, but...
Douglas Troy wrote:
Yes I know AV software doesn't catch everything; many "zero day" attacks get through, but your chances of getting a Trojan/virus are far greater by not running AV software.
Citation needed...
Douglas Troy wrote:
Think of it this way: The Internet is like a Call Girl, everyone gets their turn. You don't know where everyone's been. You're going to use the internet ... now ... don't you think you should be wearing a condom????? Yes you can still get HIV even when wearing one, but your chances are GREATLY reduced if you do.
Because, AFAIK, no one's out there dedicating their time and effort to designing and propagating a condom-busting strain of HIV...
Douglas Troy wrote:
And I can state, with limited confidence, that to the best of my knowledge, my machines are clean, because they wear protection and get checked on a regular basis.
And my limited confidence is based on periodic examination of firewall logs, process lists, and careful attention to the time needed for various operations to complete... Again, the only known infection i've had in recent memory was on a machine with company-mandated AV software installed, a worm that exploited a bug in SQL Server and silently installed itself over a weekend, and only identified by the network guy who saw the machine suddenly start generating attacks against other machines and responded by physically killing the power. But if AV lets you sleep easy at night, then by all means use it! Everyone needs something to believe in...
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I have a couple of things to say about this article and some of the statements made by people here: About The Article I found it very interesting that while the author repeatedly states these "experts" use other tools/procedures, in place of AV and personal firewalls, not once are those procedures and tools mentioned. If they are so great, then share this wealth of knowledge. "Yes", I'm sure I can come up with plenty of things on my own, as all of you can/could, but if you're going to write about not using AV software, and state how the experts use other means/tools, then talk about those means/tools, otherwise shut the hell up, because you're not providing information that is useful what-so-ever. Seriously what useful information did that article provide you all? The only thing I took away from it was "Security Experts that say use AV, don't use it themselves, so there". About What Some of You have Stated "I don't run AV software or personal firewalls, and never have, and I've never been infected" - I love this statement. So ... how exactly do you know you're machine is not infected with a Root Kit or a Trojan if you're not running AV software? Yea, maybe if you have a good firewall, and you've blocked all outgoing ports, and you continuously check logs, you might be able to make that statement; assuming your firewall hasn't also been hacked, or the hacks aren't using common ports ... like port 80. Or piggy backing off another valid process, in which case, even looking at your log files won't hint that something is wrong. There are many Trojans/Virus out there today that are so complex, if you weren't running AV or Malware software, there's not a chance in hell you'd know you're machine was infected. You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself. Yes I know AV software doesn't catch everything; many "zero day" attacks get through, but your chances of getting a Trojan/virus are far greater by not running AV software. Think of it this way: The Internet is like a Call Girl, everyone gets their turn. You don't know where everyone's been. You're going to use the internet ... now ... don't you think you should be wearing a condom????? Yes you can still get HIV even when wearing one, but your chances are GREATLY reduced if you do. My computers don't just wear one, they have three ... (see below) As for myself I have a H/W firewall, I use AV software and I have a personal firewall on my home machi
Douglas Troy wrote:
how exactly do you know you're machine is not infected
As most of us said...we do check once in a while...and never find anything. Sure there are viruses/malware out there that are sophisticated enough to bypass scanners...but those are the ones that you are gonna get hit by even when you are running AV/AM.
Douglas Troy wrote
You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself.
For me personally...there is no fooling going on here. I keep track of what my machine is doing and I know when it has something wierd going on...web browser not comming up instantly?...programs taking longer than normal to load?...CPU/Memory usage higher than normal?...more than normal number of processes running?...CPU temp higher than normal?...Hard drive grinding at unusual times?...I check it out. If something can go undetected by myself for ~6mo on one of my machines until I do my next scan (or longer if the scan doesn't detect it) then I really don't have a problem with it. It isn't hindering my computing experience, it isn't using an excessive amount of my network. It isn't sending unwanted emails to my non-existant addressbook that isn't kept on my PC. That makes it better software than 100% of the AV on the market today and 99% of all other software as well. Kudos to the author.
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I have a couple of things to say about this article and some of the statements made by people here: About The Article I found it very interesting that while the author repeatedly states these "experts" use other tools/procedures, in place of AV and personal firewalls, not once are those procedures and tools mentioned. If they are so great, then share this wealth of knowledge. "Yes", I'm sure I can come up with plenty of things on my own, as all of you can/could, but if you're going to write about not using AV software, and state how the experts use other means/tools, then talk about those means/tools, otherwise shut the hell up, because you're not providing information that is useful what-so-ever. Seriously what useful information did that article provide you all? The only thing I took away from it was "Security Experts that say use AV, don't use it themselves, so there". About What Some of You have Stated "I don't run AV software or personal firewalls, and never have, and I've never been infected" - I love this statement. So ... how exactly do you know you're machine is not infected with a Root Kit or a Trojan if you're not running AV software? Yea, maybe if you have a good firewall, and you've blocked all outgoing ports, and you continuously check logs, you might be able to make that statement; assuming your firewall hasn't also been hacked, or the hacks aren't using common ports ... like port 80. Or piggy backing off another valid process, in which case, even looking at your log files won't hint that something is wrong. There are many Trojans/Virus out there today that are so complex, if you weren't running AV or Malware software, there's not a chance in hell you'd know you're machine was infected. You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself. Yes I know AV software doesn't catch everything; many "zero day" attacks get through, but your chances of getting a Trojan/virus are far greater by not running AV software. Think of it this way: The Internet is like a Call Girl, everyone gets their turn. You don't know where everyone's been. You're going to use the internet ... now ... don't you think you should be wearing a condom????? Yes you can still get HIV even when wearing one, but your chances are GREATLY reduced if you do. My computers don't just wear one, they have three ... (see below) As for myself I have a H/W firewall, I use AV software and I have a personal firewall on my home machi
Your criticism "About The Article" is perfect! I couldn't agree more.
BDF People don't mind being mean; but they never want to be ridiculous. -- Moliere
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Douglas Troy wrote:
how exactly do you know you're machine is not infected
As most of us said...we do check once in a while...and never find anything. Sure there are viruses/malware out there that are sophisticated enough to bypass scanners...but those are the ones that you are gonna get hit by even when you are running AV/AM.
Douglas Troy wrote
You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself.
For me personally...there is no fooling going on here. I keep track of what my machine is doing and I know when it has something wierd going on...web browser not comming up instantly?...programs taking longer than normal to load?...CPU/Memory usage higher than normal?...more than normal number of processes running?...CPU temp higher than normal?...Hard drive grinding at unusual times?...I check it out. If something can go undetected by myself for ~6mo on one of my machines until I do my next scan (or longer if the scan doesn't detect it) then I really don't have a problem with it. It isn't hindering my computing experience, it isn't using an excessive amount of my network. It isn't sending unwanted emails to my non-existant addressbook that isn't kept on my PC. That makes it better software than 100% of the AV on the market today and 99% of all other software as well. Kudos to the author.
kinar wrote:
As most of us said...we do check once in a while...and never find anything.
That's often not the "quote" that people state here, they say they don't use them, not "I run an AV scan once in a while and never find anything". There is a big difference between flat not not using running AV software and scanning once in a while; you are still using AV software in that case. But again, that's not what many people around here say, they say "I don't use AV software and have never had a virus", that's the typical comment. So, going back to my HIV analogy: you guys don't use protection, do "self checks", and hope you actually notice when something is wrong, in time, and go to the doctor's once in a while for a check-up. Using an Eddie Murphy quote, but converted for our kid sisters here: One of these days, you're going to plug your cable into Internet's port, and it's just going to explode. This is why I use protection: I don't trust you. I don't know where you've been, and yet, we have the same "girl-friend"; she goes by the name of Internet.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
Yes and No. On my work PC (WinXP) I run an AV, but on my Home PC (Linux) I don't. The reason that I don't run an AV on the linux one is because it's not connected to the internet, not because it's a linux box.
I have linux at home as well. I do not run antivirus on that because the only software I install is signed by my distribution to make sure that the file is not altered from the source. A mischievous developer on any of the 800+ open source software packages I have installed on the machine however could cause me harm but I am not sure any antivirus software could protect against that anyways. I run very few applications as root so that will limit the scope of any damage. Now at work we are given Symantec Antivirus Corperate (Endpoint) at no direct cost to each user. It does not catch every virus or malware, is generally not much help after an infection and is a resource hog so I am not sure I would recommend that. Also since the company already has a company wide license with Symantec it would be a struggle to get them to agree to let me buy something else.
John
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Douglas Troy wrote:
There are many Trojans/Virus out there today that are so complex, if you weren't running AV or Malware software, there's not a chance in hell you'd know you're machine was infected. You might like to fool yourself into believing as such, but you are doing just that, fooling yourself.
There are plenty of Worms / Malware out there today that are so complex, that if you were running AV or Malware software, you might still be infected and not know it. You might like to tell yourself otherwise, but...
Douglas Troy wrote:
Yes I know AV software doesn't catch everything; many "zero day" attacks get through, but your chances of getting a Trojan/virus are far greater by not running AV software.
Citation needed...
Douglas Troy wrote:
Think of it this way: The Internet is like a Call Girl, everyone gets their turn. You don't know where everyone's been. You're going to use the internet ... now ... don't you think you should be wearing a condom????? Yes you can still get HIV even when wearing one, but your chances are GREATLY reduced if you do.
Because, AFAIK, no one's out there dedicating their time and effort to designing and propagating a condom-busting strain of HIV...
Douglas Troy wrote:
And I can state, with limited confidence, that to the best of my knowledge, my machines are clean, because they wear protection and get checked on a regular basis.
And my limited confidence is based on periodic examination of firewall logs, process lists, and careful attention to the time needed for various operations to complete... Again, the only known infection i've had in recent memory was on a machine with company-mandated AV software installed, a worm that exploited a bug in SQL Server and silently installed itself over a weekend, and only identified by the network guy who saw the machine suddenly start generating attacks against other machines and responded by physically killing the power. But if AV lets you sleep easy at night, then by all means use it! Everyone needs something to believe in...
Shog9 wrote:
There are plenty of Worms / Malware out there today that are so complex, that if you were running AV or Malware software, you might still be infected and not know it. You might like to tell yourself otherwise, but...
Yes, I know this, hence my HIV remark about "still being able to get HIV even with a Condom".
Shog9 wrote:
Citation needed...
Seriously? Go to the Virus Bulletin[^] website, sign-up. They do a very good job of what AV scanners are detecting current threats running amok on the web, which ones detect the most, have the highest catches, etc...
Shog9 wrote:
Because, AFAIK, no one's out there dedicating their time and effort to designing and propagating a condom-busting strain of HIV...
My point here was to acknowledge the fact that even using protection (AV Software) doesn't mean you're 100% safe.
Shog9 wrote:
Again, the only known infection i've had in recent memory was on a machine with company-mandated AV software installed, a worm that exploited a bug in SQL Server and silently installed itself over a weekend, and only identified by the network guy who saw the machine suddenly start generating attacks against other machines and responded by physically killing the power.
I guess this is where I start to personally see problems with this line thought: By the time you come to realize there is an infection, the damage will have been done; and in almost all cases, you'll not ever really know exactly what that damage entails. You may not even been using the machine when the virus activates and starts to spread. But running an AV software that uses Heuristics, that should greatly lessen the chance that a virus or Trojan is able to wreck the system in question. BTW - this exact situation occurred to one of my Son's PCs that was not running AV at the time the virus kicked into high gear. It chewed it's way through his system while he was sleeping; fortunately, the rest of my PCs on my network nailed the virus as it attempted to jump across the file shares. Again - I go back my condom anology: you and I share the same girl-friend, Shog, her name is "Internet" ... do you know where I've been? How about JSOP? Or Chris
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Your criticism "About The Article" is perfect! I couldn't agree more.
BDF People don't mind being mean; but they never want to be ridiculous. -- Moliere
Big Daddy Farang wrote:
Your criticism "About The Article" is perfect! I couldn't agree more.
Guess I'm in a raw mood today, typically I wouldn't say anything about something like this, but this seems to be more and more the case with stuff on the web, it's beginning to get to me.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
harold aptroot wrote:
"limited Web browsing, maximum security in the browser, e-mail filtering and other lock-downs on the system"
It isn't an option for me either...I run with default settings on almost everything I use. Plus I use IE (was IE6 until very recently when I made the switch to IE8) as my primary browser. I venture through some of the darkest depths of the interwebs. The key is that I keep an eye on the systems I use. I always know what each process running on the machine is for and recognise when a new one pops up or when the machine does something abnormal.
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Came across this featured news story... Experts Only: Time to Ditch the Antivirus?[^] I haven't ever ran AV as a resident process on my home PCs. I never even have them installed. I've always viewed them simply as resource hogs and unnecessary for me. Once in a great while (about twice a year) I will run the free online AV at trendmicro but thats pretty much the extent of it. I very rarely ever become infected with a virus (about one every 5 years). On the other hand, I certainly still recommend it for other people when they ask because I realize that most of the population is ignorant to the way that viruses spread and that is the real security hole when it comes to viruses (education). I've always assumed I was alone in this (not running AV on my machine) since everyone I've ever worked with tells me I'm crazy.. How bout you? Do you run AV?
modified on Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:09 AM
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kinar wrote:
As most of us said...we do check once in a while...and never find anything.
That's often not the "quote" that people state here, they say they don't use them, not "I run an AV scan once in a while and never find anything". There is a big difference between flat not not using running AV software and scanning once in a while; you are still using AV software in that case. But again, that's not what many people around here say, they say "I don't use AV software and have never had a virus", that's the typical comment. So, going back to my HIV analogy: you guys don't use protection, do "self checks", and hope you actually notice when something is wrong, in time, and go to the doctor's once in a while for a check-up. Using an Eddie Murphy quote, but converted for our kid sisters here: One of these days, you're going to plug your cable into Internet's port, and it's just going to explode. This is why I use protection: I don't trust you. I don't know where you've been, and yet, we have the same "girl-friend"; she goes by the name of Internet.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTLusing HIV as an analagy to an internet virus isn't exactly applicable. with HIV, if you get infected...you die with a computer virus if your PC gets infected, it feels bad for a couple days and then gets better. Sure it is possible for a PC to die from a virus left unchecked, but not very likely...virii today are wimps compared to virii of yesteryear. Worst they do is cause you to lose a little data...which should be backed up if it is actually important...but thats another topic
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using HIV as an analagy to an internet virus isn't exactly applicable. with HIV, if you get infected...you die with a computer virus if your PC gets infected, it feels bad for a couple days and then gets better. Sure it is possible for a PC to die from a virus left unchecked, but not very likely...virii today are wimps compared to virii of yesteryear. Worst they do is cause you to lose a little data...which should be backed up if it is actually important...but thats another topic
kinar wrote:
using HIV as an analagy to an internet virus isn't exactly applicable.
I was using it as an example virus, because like computer virus, there are many strains, it's difficult to detect, it can mutate, sometimes even protection does not work, which I felt was important that I acknowledge that fact, and the destruction it can wreck can be devastating.
kinar wrote:
with a computer virus if your PC gets infected, it feels bad for a couple days and then gets better. Sure it is possible for a PC to die from a virus left unchecked, but not very likely...virii today are wimps compared to virii of yesteryear. Worst they do is cause you to lose a little data...which should be backed up if it is actually important...but thats another topic
That's not entirely accurate either, it depends on what you're hit with and when it's caught, etc... In some cases, you'll have to scrub the entire system and reload ... in which case, you may feel like you want to die; especially if you've not backed up.
kinar wrote:
which should be backed up if it is actually important...but thats another topic
Totally and completely agree with that statement 100 fold; no matter what side of the AV street you stand on, I'll say "Amen brother" to that.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
Shog9 wrote:
There are plenty of Worms / Malware out there today that are so complex, that if you were running AV or Malware software, you might still be infected and not know it. You might like to tell yourself otherwise, but...
Yes, I know this, hence my HIV remark about "still being able to get HIV even with a Condom".
Shog9 wrote:
Citation needed...
Seriously? Go to the Virus Bulletin[^] website, sign-up. They do a very good job of what AV scanners are detecting current threats running amok on the web, which ones detect the most, have the highest catches, etc...
Shog9 wrote:
Because, AFAIK, no one's out there dedicating their time and effort to designing and propagating a condom-busting strain of HIV...
My point here was to acknowledge the fact that even using protection (AV Software) doesn't mean you're 100% safe.
Shog9 wrote:
Again, the only known infection i've had in recent memory was on a machine with company-mandated AV software installed, a worm that exploited a bug in SQL Server and silently installed itself over a weekend, and only identified by the network guy who saw the machine suddenly start generating attacks against other machines and responded by physically killing the power.
I guess this is where I start to personally see problems with this line thought: By the time you come to realize there is an infection, the damage will have been done; and in almost all cases, you'll not ever really know exactly what that damage entails. You may not even been using the machine when the virus activates and starts to spread. But running an AV software that uses Heuristics, that should greatly lessen the chance that a virus or Trojan is able to wreck the system in question. BTW - this exact situation occurred to one of my Son's PCs that was not running AV at the time the virus kicked into high gear. It chewed it's way through his system while he was sleeping; fortunately, the rest of my PCs on my network nailed the virus as it attempted to jump across the file shares. Again - I go back my condom anology: you and I share the same girl-friend, Shog, her name is "Internet" ... do you know where I've been? How about JSOP? Or Chris
Douglas Troy wrote:
My point here was to acknowledge the fact that even using protection (AV Software) doesn't mean you're 100% safe.
Right. And my point is, you're only safe if your virus scanner has be specifically designed to obstruct the viruses you're, uh, exposing yourself to. I'm guessing you don't open executable attachments from random emails even with the scanner installed, so the correct analogy is wearing a condom - with holes in it - even when you're just looking at the call girl...
Douglas Troy wrote:
Go to the Virus Bulletin[^] website, sign-up. They do a very good job of what AV scanners are detecting current threats running amok on the web, which ones detect the most, have the highest catches, etc...
Not sure what i'm looking at here... I don't doubt that most current AV software does a fine job of intercepting two-year-old trojans. But, i'm not particularly worried about those anyway. I was asking if you had hard data on the efficacy of running AV software on top of patched software, careful browsing and email habits, etc.
Douglas Troy wrote:
But running an AV software that uses Heuristics, that should greatly lessen the chance that a virus or Trojan is able to wreck the system in question.
IMHO, this made a lot more sense back when the average OS didn't offer anything in the way of protection, and the average application needed full access to the machine in order to function. When Internet Explorer would happily download and run native code with full trust at the drop of a hat. And when virtualization was still somewhat of an esoteric toy on PCs. Truth is, i don't have much faith in heuristic algorithms for this purpose. Maybe for filtering spam - a false negative only costs me a few seconds of wasted time - but if i'm about to run untrusted code, i'd much rather have some assurance that it'll be sandboxed regardless of whether it "looks" like malware. Again, i'm not saying AV is necessarily worthless. When i work on someone else's PC, and notice that they're... not exactly tech savvy, spend all day downloading sketchy software, using KaZaa, etc... Then i make sure they have it installed. Not that they won't manage to wreck that mac