What every programmer should know about...
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
simply not realistic
Wait.. what? IMO every programmer should have at least read those documents, and preferably understand most of it. And universities should encourage students to read these things.. You know most students think like "doubles are more precise so I should use them all the time"? And then of course they write code that throws away all the precision with subtraction and then compares the result for equality. And then they complain that doubles are broken. The lack of knowledge about computer memory is less apparent, but it can't be good.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
simply not realistic
Wait.. what? IMO every programmer should have at least read those documents, and preferably understand most of it. And universities should encourage students to read these things.. You know most students think like "doubles are more precise so I should use them all the time"? And then of course they write code that throws away all the precision with subtraction and then compares the result for equality. And then they complain that doubles are broken. The lack of knowledge about computer memory is less apparent, but it can't be good.
harold aptroot wrote:
read those documents
That is indeed simply not realistic. The level of detail both, but especially the memory one, as far beyond what a good education for a programmer, vs. a computer scientist, should entail.
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harold aptroot wrote:
read those documents
That is indeed simply not realistic. The level of detail both, but especially the memory one, as far beyond what a good education for a programmer, vs. a computer scientist, should entail.
They could still read them, reading is not hard.. Of course it's better if they understand it, but if they at least read those documents then even without understanding they should be more aware of possible pitfalls. Being aware of them is more important than knowing how exactly to avoid them - one could always look it up or ask someone else.
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
When I started coding, back in ancient times, it was more important to understand things like memory (what do you mean 64k segments???). Failure to do so would result in some long and interesting nights with your C debugger. Today, people equate programming with putting up a web page. When your primary tools are papyrus and ink, about the only thing you need to worry about is steering clear of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua!
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When I started coding, back in ancient times, it was more important to understand things like memory (what do you mean 64k segments???). Failure to do so would result in some long and interesting nights with your C debugger. Today, people equate programming with putting up a web page. When your primary tools are papyrus and ink, about the only thing you need to worry about is steering clear of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua!
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Today, people equate programming with putting up a web page.
and title themselves as Software Engineers, shocking but true.
Software Kinetics (requires SL3 beta) - Moving software
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When I started coding, back in ancient times, it was more important to understand things like memory (what do you mean 64k segments???). Failure to do so would result in some long and interesting nights with your C debugger. Today, people equate programming with putting up a web page. When your primary tools are papyrus and ink, about the only thing you need to worry about is steering clear of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua!
Christopher Duncan wrote:
people equate programming with putting up a web page
You never miss an opportunity to take a jibe on Web development?:)
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
I'd rather people read that than that bloody Gang of Four bilge. Worryingly, people just by virtue of having 'read' it seem to consider themselves competant.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
simply not realistic
Wait.. what? IMO every programmer should have at least read those documents, and preferably understand most of it. And universities should encourage students to read these things.. You know most students think like "doubles are more precise so I should use them all the time"? And then of course they write code that throws away all the precision with subtraction and then compares the result for equality. And then they complain that doubles are broken. The lack of knowledge about computer memory is less apparent, but it can't be good.
harold aptroot wrote:
IMO every programmer should have at least read those documents, and preferably understand most of it
I am pleasantly surprised to see the attitude, but it is just never going to happen :)
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I'd rather people read that than that bloody Gang of Four bilge. Worryingly, people just by virtue of having 'read' it seem to consider themselves competant.
Regards, Rob Philpott.
Rob Philpott wrote:
I'd rather people read that than that bloody Gang of Four bilge
Amen. The GoF stuff is IMHO harmful.
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
There's a major difference between knowing something in and out, and being aware that there are potentially serious pitfalls and knowing when to consult a detailed reference. The former isn't overly realistic if if's something that you're not doing on a regular basis. Not knowing the latter is one of the common sources of wtfware code. Thanks for the memory article. I hadn't seen that one before, and will have to spend some quality time with it.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
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They could still read them, reading is not hard.. Of course it's better if they understand it, but if they at least read those documents then even without understanding they should be more aware of possible pitfalls. Being aware of them is more important than knowing how exactly to avoid them - one could always look it up or ask someone else.
Did you even read them yourself? I suspect you did not. Or do you seriously think that every programmer needs to know the circuit diagram for a 6-transistor SRAM cell? Or the capacitor charge and discharge timing of DRAM cells? The entire first part (which is substantial) consists of hardware details that are utterly irrelevant to the vast majority of programmers. In fact, only those who write assembly code (or compilers - i.e. programs that write assembly code) could even potentially use detailed knowledge about the internal caching design of modern CPUs. Given how many programmers fail to grasp, not to mention make good use of, the fundamental concepts of OOP, I can think of a few things I'd recommend studying before this.
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harold aptroot wrote:
IMO every programmer should have at least read those documents, and preferably understand most of it
I am pleasantly surprised to see the attitude, but it is just never going to happen :)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
people equate programming with putting up a web page
You never miss an opportunity to take a jibe on Web development?:)
Maybe because it's so epically full of failure? :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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When I started coding, back in ancient times, it was more important to understand things like memory (what do you mean 64k segments???). Failure to do so would result in some long and interesting nights with your C debugger. Today, people equate programming with putting up a web page. When your primary tools are papyrus and ink, about the only thing you need to worry about is steering clear of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua!
Christopher Duncan wrote:
the only thing you need to worry about is steering clear of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Does Doug know about this yet? Someone should really let him know!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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When I started coding, back in ancient times, it was more important to understand things like memory (what do you mean 64k segments???). Failure to do so would result in some long and interesting nights with your C debugger. Today, people equate programming with putting up a web page. When your primary tools are papyrus and ink, about the only thing you need to worry about is steering clear of the Pharaoh's daughter.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua!
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They could still read them, reading is not hard.. Of course it's better if they understand it, but if they at least read those documents then even without understanding they should be more aware of possible pitfalls. Being aware of them is more important than knowing how exactly to avoid them - one could always look it up or ask someone else.
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
In my university there was a discipline called “Computer Architectures” which covered this subjects and a lot more in very deep basis. In fact this discipline was so hard that eventually some 10-15% of the students from my class failed to take this exam and had been suspended from the university.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Did you even read them yourself? I suspect you did not. Or do you seriously think that every programmer needs to know the circuit diagram for a 6-transistor SRAM cell? Or the capacitor charge and discharge timing of DRAM cells? The entire first part (which is substantial) consists of hardware details that are utterly irrelevant to the vast majority of programmers. In fact, only those who write assembly code (or compilers - i.e. programs that write assembly code) could even potentially use detailed knowledge about the internal caching design of modern CPUs. Given how many programmers fail to grasp, not to mention make good use of, the fundamental concepts of OOP, I can think of a few things I'd recommend studying before this.
dojohansen wrote:
Did you even read them yourself? I suspect you did not.
Of course I did.
dojohansen wrote:
Or do you seriously think that every programmer needs to know the circuit diagram for a 6-transistor SRAM cell? Or the capacitor charge and discharge timing of DRAM cells?
No, they don't need to remember it, but they should know that it works that way (not the exact diagram and figures)
dojohansen wrote:
could even potentially use detailed knowledge about the internal caching design of modern CPUs.
Cache trashing is far to easy to get, for example with naive large-matrix multiplication..
dojohansen wrote:
Given how many programmers fail to grasp, not to mention make good use of, the fundamental concepts of OOP, I can think of a few things I'd recommend studying before this.
That is definitely true.
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Granted, our profession would benefit from increase in standards, but this is simply not realistic: What every programmer should know about memory[^] What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic[^]
I have never heard of the first article but I have read the second article. You should notice that it is not for programmers but for computer scientists. And IMHO it should not be a very difficult reading for any comptuer scientist worth his salt. -Saurabh
