Are software engineer that cheap?
-
3+ years experience in dev and a masters you should put your skills to better use. If the position requires these kinds of skills then maybe the company would sell you for more than 22$/Hour, but would try to pass only this on to you.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
This is what i think but it can be microsoft as well from behind. But my point is should this practice be allowed? It hurts everything, talent, competition and Microsoft itself (if they are not at fault). This is like an indian agency who recruits for microsoft. I am sure they are really hurting competitors but well may be not, my point is, is this practice be allowed?
-
Unless you have a real engineering degree, then title aside, you're not an engineer. For a first year job, with no real experience, it's 45K. That doesn't seem that bad for a newbie.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_engineer[^] It says Texas regulates the use of the term "Software Engineer". And even more, Texas bans anyone from writing real-time code without an engineering license. Well quite nice since they have all this staff working on space related products.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I went to college for a full year, with a major in engineering, before I realized it had nothing to do with Trains. :rolleyes:
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTLDouglas Troy wrote:
it had nothing to do with Trains
:) One question. You have a degree in software engineering, would you rather call yourself a software engineer or a software developer (in the US)?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I just received a call from redmond based recruiter (client microsoft). It was 'software design engineer in test 1' position, with 6 month to 1 year of experience. After asking all the question about my experience, they say the maximum they can offer is 22$/hr with no benifits. Should an engineer be paid that low? Does it look alllright? I know microsoft reputation is not great but but i think it is the agency who is making big here. What do you ppl think? Any such experience. I have been offered such salary ranges before by this company and it seems it is ok.
-
Douglas Troy wrote:
it had nothing to do with Trains
:) One question. You have a degree in software engineering, would you rather call yourself a software engineer or a software developer (in the US)?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
Well, actually, most of my co-workers call me: Sir Troy, Slayer of bugs, Destroyer of Windows and Grand Software Master ... but I'm not picky ... Sr Software Developer works too ... so long as they don't forget to kneel first. :-\
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
Unless you have a real engineering degree, then title aside, you're not an engineer. For a first year job, with no real experience, it's 45K. That doesn't seem that bad for a newbie.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
22/hr for 6 months is not 45k a year. But you are right, it is a lot more than I made in my first programming job.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
-
This is what i think but it can be microsoft as well from behind. But my point is should this practice be allowed? It hurts everything, talent, competition and Microsoft itself (if they are not at fault). This is like an indian agency who recruits for microsoft. I am sure they are really hurting competitors but well may be not, my point is, is this practice be allowed?
That looks wrong.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I just received a call from redmond based recruiter (client microsoft). It was 'software design engineer in test 1' position, with 6 month to 1 year of experience. After asking all the question about my experience, they say the maximum they can offer is 22$/hr with no benifits. Should an engineer be paid that low? Does it look alllright? I know microsoft reputation is not great but but i think it is the agency who is making big here. What do you ppl think? Any such experience. I have been offered such salary ranges before by this company and it seems it is ok.
If it came with benefits I'd say it was a reasonable rate for an entry level developer position in most of the country (a few places like Manhattan/San Francisco being exceptions); as it is I have to wonder if they're putting it out so that they can say "we can't get an american to fill the job, give us an H1B visa".
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
-
22/hr for 6 months is not 45k a year. But you are right, it is a lot more than I made in my first programming job.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
22/hr for 6 months is not 45k a year
Especially without benefits, that looks more like 30k
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I just received a call from redmond based recruiter (client microsoft). It was 'software design engineer in test 1' position, with 6 month to 1 year of experience. After asking all the question about my experience, they say the maximum they can offer is 22$/hr with no benifits. Should an engineer be paid that low? Does it look alllright? I know microsoft reputation is not great but but i think it is the agency who is making big here. What do you ppl think? Any such experience. I have been offered such salary ranges before by this company and it seems it is ok.
I offer a handy dandy rate calculator so you can effectively judge what you should be paid hourly as a contractor, here: [^] Salary.com suggests the Title of Software Engineer I can bank 65k a year plus benefits. Considering that I find that rather high and hard to believe I will use a base number of 36k because I think it is a nice number. Your young so retirement isn't that big of an issue but if you through in 2500 per year of health insurance and 1500 a year for retirement into my calculator it suggests you should be paid $23.8/hr to make 36k a year. So long story short, for a noob that is pretty good and much more than I made straight from college.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
-
45k for an entry level position is more than any person should be paid. If you feel you are entitled to more than that, then you are either not entry level or need to re-evaluate your lifestyle
kinar wrote:
45k for an entry level position
This is not 45k for an entry level position, this is 22$/hour without benefits for 6 months. Quite not a full-time job.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I just received a call from redmond based recruiter (client microsoft). It was 'software design engineer in test 1' position, with 6 month to 1 year of experience. After asking all the question about my experience, they say the maximum they can offer is 22$/hr with no benifits. Should an engineer be paid that low? Does it look alllright? I know microsoft reputation is not great but but i think it is the agency who is making big here. What do you ppl think? Any such experience. I have been offered such salary ranges before by this company and it seems it is ok.
Few years back when I was out of work I got a call from a company looking for a programmer with years of experience that would work for $14 and hour. I laughed if off and told them good luck. Later I got a call from a company offering a similar job at $12 and hour. Made me think that these companies either: A. Had no idea what a programmer with experience goes for. or B. Were actually hiring desperate people at these rates. Even if you don't like the rate being offered there may be a line of people who would take your place.
-
Few years back when I was out of work I got a call from a company looking for a programmer with years of experience that would work for $14 and hour. I laughed if off and told them good luck. Later I got a call from a company offering a similar job at $12 and hour. Made me think that these companies either: A. Had no idea what a programmer with experience goes for. or B. Were actually hiring desperate people at these rates. Even if you don't like the rate being offered there may be a line of people who would take your place.
thrakazog wrote:
Were actually hiring desperate people at these rates
Or maybe, hiring people at these rates without the same skill set as yours.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
Few years back when I was out of work I got a call from a company looking for a programmer with years of experience that would work for $14 and hour. I laughed if off and told them good luck. Later I got a call from a company offering a similar job at $12 and hour. Made me think that these companies either: A. Had no idea what a programmer with experience goes for. or B. Were actually hiring desperate people at these rates. Even if you don't like the rate being offered there may be a line of people who would take your place.
I agree with you. But the case here is that of Microsoft who is big employer and who determines standards. If i get a 10$ an hour job from local company who no body knew, i'd say yes or no without complaining at all, but it is Microsoft. The idea looks like this, this guy need an H1 so why pay him at all. 22$/hr is a lot of money. And this actually beats a local programmer who works in 40$/hr range and is offered 22$/hr. But the question is, is it fair? Is Microsoft so poor that it should not appreciate talent at all? Shouldn't there be standards? And i will tell you there is no job security, you can get laid off any time, how will you support yourself after traveling coast to coast?
-
I offer a handy dandy rate calculator so you can effectively judge what you should be paid hourly as a contractor, here: [^] Salary.com suggests the Title of Software Engineer I can bank 65k a year plus benefits. Considering that I find that rather high and hard to believe I will use a base number of 36k because I think it is a nice number. Your young so retirement isn't that big of an issue but if you through in 2500 per year of health insurance and 1500 a year for retirement into my calculator it suggests you should be paid $23.8/hr to make 36k a year. So long story short, for a noob that is pretty good and much more than I made straight from college.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Why do you think 65K is high? I don't know about what the correct title is, but anyone who has been coding full time 3-5 years should make about 55-65K, 5-10 years 75-85K and 10 years + should make between 90-125K
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
-
I just received a call from redmond based recruiter (client microsoft). It was 'software design engineer in test 1' position, with 6 month to 1 year of experience. After asking all the question about my experience, they say the maximum they can offer is 22$/hr with no benifits. Should an engineer be paid that low? Does it look alllright? I know microsoft reputation is not great but but i think it is the agency who is making big here. What do you ppl think? Any such experience. I have been offered such salary ranges before by this company and it seems it is ok.
See this: http://engineersalaries.blogspot.com/2007/04/shortage-of-engineers.html[^] In Alaska, new college graduates get 60k/years!
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
Why do you think 65K is high? I don't know about what the correct title is, but anyone who has been coding full time 3-5 years should make about 55-65K, 5-10 years 75-85K and 10 years + should make between 90-125K
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
It is an entry level position requiring 1 year or less of experience. Furthermore it is a QA position. I agree with your numbers on the years of experience.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
-
I agree with you. But the case here is that of Microsoft who is big employer and who determines standards. If i get a 10$ an hour job from local company who no body knew, i'd say yes or no without complaining at all, but it is Microsoft. The idea looks like this, this guy need an H1 so why pay him at all. 22$/hr is a lot of money. And this actually beats a local programmer who works in 40$/hr range and is offered 22$/hr. But the question is, is it fair? Is Microsoft so poor that it should not appreciate talent at all? Shouldn't there be standards? And i will tell you there is no job security, you can get laid off any time, how will you support yourself after traveling coast to coast?
sharp_k wrote:
Is Microsoft so poor that it should not appreciate talent at all?
This is a good question. Should a company like this one, with a CEO screaming loud Developers, Developers, Developers! consider their core skills not valuable, we could wonder how the shortage in IT skills, the desertion of science degrees, and the papy boom will be handled.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
-
I agree with you. But the case here is that of Microsoft who is big employer and who determines standards. If i get a 10$ an hour job from local company who no body knew, i'd say yes or no without complaining at all, but it is Microsoft. The idea looks like this, this guy need an H1 so why pay him at all. 22$/hr is a lot of money. And this actually beats a local programmer who works in 40$/hr range and is offered 22$/hr. But the question is, is it fair? Is Microsoft so poor that it should not appreciate talent at all? Shouldn't there be standards? And i will tell you there is no job security, you can get laid off any time, how will you support yourself after traveling coast to coast?
sharp_k wrote:
, is it fair?
No such thing in business.
sharp_k wrote:
Is Microsoft so poor
You don't make money paying people what they are worth. You make money by paying them just enough to keep them coming back for more. Us poor wage slaves seldom appreciate this as we're on the less desirable end of the transaction.
-
See this: http://engineersalaries.blogspot.com/2007/04/shortage-of-engineers.html[^] In Alaska, new college graduates get 60k/years!
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.