Jobless IT graduate sues her college
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The world of The Netherlands - you have no Master's, then you are a drop out. It's suspicious. Why wouldn't have you have a Master's? Lazyness: bad. Lack of skill: worse.
harold aptroot wrote:
The world of The Netherlands - you have no Master's, then you are a drop out. It's suspicious. Why wouldn't have you have a Master's?
Because they mean vastly different things between the US and the Netherlands. The generic European process is to get a 3-year bachelor's degree, a 1-year master's degree and then a 3-year doctorate, though this varies across countries. The UK system is probably the closest to the US system. The North American system is an optional 2-year associates degree, a 4-year bachelor's degree. Only then do you progress to post-graduate degrees. A masters typically takes 2+ years and requires an academic track and often a thesis or dissertation. A PhD also has an academic track and usually research and a dissertation--you can skip a master's degree (which was common for US scientists in the 50s. I don't think it's that common anymore.) Also understand that in the US, and I suspect much of the Commonwealth, in most fields, after you gain some experience, nobody cares about your degree except as a lazy way to filter applications. The big exceptions are obviously fields which require certification.
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Being English I sometimes really feel for Americans having for to put up with people like this -->Clickety :wtf: I mean seriously, who is going to employ her now?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
She's an embarrassment to her parents, her school, and herself. It really makes me wonder how many of these twits this country is turning out each year. It's not just sad it's absolutely pathetic!
1300 calories of pure beef goodness can't be wrong!
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harold aptroot wrote:
The world of The Netherlands - you have no Master's, then you are a drop out. It's suspicious. Why wouldn't have you have a Master's?
Because they mean vastly different things between the US and the Netherlands. The generic European process is to get a 3-year bachelor's degree, a 1-year master's degree and then a 3-year doctorate, though this varies across countries. The UK system is probably the closest to the US system. The North American system is an optional 2-year associates degree, a 4-year bachelor's degree. Only then do you progress to post-graduate degrees. A masters typically takes 2+ years and requires an academic track and often a thesis or dissertation. A PhD also has an academic track and usually research and a dissertation--you can skip a master's degree (which was common for US scientists in the 50s. I don't think it's that common anymore.) Also understand that in the US, and I suspect much of the Commonwealth, in most fields, after you gain some experience, nobody cares about your degree except as a lazy way to filter applications. The big exceptions are obviously fields which require certification.
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Being English I sometimes really feel for Americans having for to put up with people like this -->Clickety :wtf: I mean seriously, who is going to employ her now?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
The only thing more stupid would be the company that hired her - knowing that she would probably sue them if she was fired or layed off X|
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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My first reaction was similar to many here, but then I read one story that pointed out that Monroe College had bragged about their placement rates and how much they did to get you a job and all that. The legal question is whether Monroe College made a contract or whether their claims constituted a contract. If they did (and I think they did), are they really liable for the graduate's tuition (that's where I'm skeptical.) This does raise a question, though, about what liability universities have for making claims and promises about job placement or even job possibilities that simply aren't true. Yes, everyone should know that colleges and universities have long way oversold the value of their services, but should they get away with their lies forever?
Joe Woodbury wrote:
This does raise a question, though, about what liability universities have for making claims and promises about job placement or even job possibilities that simply aren't true.
A very good point!
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leckey wrote:
What college GUARANTEES any kind of a job?
That is exactly what I was thinking. The judge should just throw this case out.:mad:
Kelly Herald Software Developer
Most likely that will happen since there is no case law on this subject. The problem in American law is it lets anyone first file about anything, then it takes up the court's time to sort it out.
Back in the blog beatch! http://CraptasticNation.blogspot.com/[^]
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No. A college should guarantee an opportunity for learning. The actual learning is sort of up to the student. ;)
BDF People don't mind being mean; but they never want to be ridiculous. -- Moliere
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My first reaction was similar to many here, but then I read one story that pointed out that Monroe College had bragged about their placement rates and how much they did to get you a job and all that. The legal question is whether Monroe College made a contract or whether their claims constituted a contract. If they did (and I think they did), are they really liable for the graduate's tuition (that's where I'm skeptical.) This does raise a question, though, about what liability universities have for making claims and promises about job placement or even job possibilities that simply aren't true. Yes, everyone should know that colleges and universities have long way oversold the value of their services, but should they get away with their lies forever?
Personally I have only seen, "x% percentage job placement rate in the last [time frame]." That gives no guarantee about other factors, like the economy going down the toilet. I have seen similar colleges talk about the extra mile they go in order to get graduates jobs, however, I have never seen one make it seem like a guarantee. When the economy is like it is, even the best recruiters can dash the hopes of new graduates.
Back in the blog beatch! http://CraptasticNation.blogspot.com/[^]
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The world of The Netherlands - you have no Master's, then you are a drop out. It's suspicious. Why wouldn't have you have a Master's? Lazyness: bad. Lack of skill: worse.
Happy simple country with simple rules :) And simple opinions... Some people in this world do not even go to colleges, and not always because they are lazy. It takes either money or time (which are the same, in the end) and not every one can afford it. Though all this is a side line from this topic...
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I think that is an excellent statement that should be beaten into the parents of newly enrolled college students.
Back in the blog beatch! http://CraptasticNation.blogspot.com/[^]
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leckey wrote:
What college GUARANTEES any kind of a job?
That is exactly what I was thinking. The judge should just throw this case out.:mad:
Kelly Herald Software Developer
I the college did make such a guarantee in order to get people to enroll, then there is a legal basis for the law suit. Of course things will get a lot more complicated in trial as to what the 'guarantee' word means and if it was written in a binding contract and such ..
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Although suing the college is a complete nonsense, I do feel for a lot of the young'uns now entering the workplace. Saddled with debt, very few opportunities for a low paid job, let alone a decent paying one, jobs getting off-shored left-right and centre, house prices bordering on waaaaaay past the ridiculous for the most crummy of one-bed digs... not a happy place to be. Still, there are opportunities out there and it'll just take a lot more gumption and perseverance to hunt them down. And give it five years and I expect things will have improved no end.
martin_hughes wrote:
And give it five years and I expect things will have improved no end.
that's a bit contradictory to
martin_hughes wrote:
Still, there are opportunities out there
don't you think? I mean that if the opportunity suddenly pops up in front of you 5 years from now, it doesn't mean that it exists today, does it?
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harold aptroot wrote:
and trying to hit the market without either a masters degree or a Lot of experience is just a foolish waste of time.
FTFY
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Yea ok. But that's a dead end in the paths of Life - you can't get experience because you don't already have it. If that were really the case then surely there would be reports of groups of fresh ex-students committing mass suicide. I have heard no such reports, so there's gotta be some sort of sideways workaround that somehow escapes the dead end.
There is really, no golden rule here. To the same goal you can reach from different paths. The only thing that is common in all the cases is that the "student" somehow gets the job done. I don't know if it's because of experience, whits, knowledge or ... charm ;P !!!
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Although suing the college is a complete nonsense, I do feel for a lot of the young'uns now entering the workplace. Saddled with debt, very few opportunities for a low paid job, let alone a decent paying one, jobs getting off-shored left-right and centre, house prices bordering on waaaaaay past the ridiculous for the most crummy of one-bed digs... not a happy place to be. Still, there are opportunities out there and it'll just take a lot more gumption and perseverance to hunt them down. And give it five years and I expect things will have improved no end.
martin_hughes wrote:
Saddled with debt
Not all of us. Maybe in the US that's more common but here it's very rare that the student actually has debts.
martin_hughes wrote:
house prices bordering on waaaaaay past the ridiculous for the most crummy of one-bed digs...
Have to agree (even here it's getting ridiculous) but if you look around long enough and aren't afraid of making your hands dirty a bit there are still nice things on the market. (I just bought my apartment, need a lot of work but hey that's the fun part ;P )
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Agreed. I saw she sued for 70K USD only. she would have added 150K for causing mental trauma and 150K more for loss of valuable time. ;P
Pravarakhya wrote:
valuable time
whose?
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Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep! -
leckey wrote:
What college GUARANTEES any kind of a job?
That is exactly what I was thinking. The judge should just throw this case out.:mad:
Kelly Herald Software Developer
besides that he should help her into a mental asylum and sentence those who abetted her from doing that with really tough sentences so that this would be an eyeopener for others from not wasting the time of the judiciary.
Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage
Tech Gossips
The woods are lovely, dark and deep, But I have promises to keep, And miles to go before I sleep, And miles to go before I sleep! -
The world of The Netherlands - you have no Master's, then you are a drop out. It's suspicious. Why wouldn't have you have a Master's? Lazyness: bad. Lack of skill: worse.
I got a job in the Netherlands without a bachelors
Pete
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Being English I sometimes really feel for Americans having for to put up with people like this -->Clickety :wtf: I mean seriously, who is going to employ her now?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
I'm familiar with this college. It started out as a storefront quickie career brushup place - geared towards providing business skills, like typing. Then it became accredited. Not sure how or when. It then expanded, consuming a couple of city blocks. A fine example of the state of private higher education for the masses in this country. Ignoring the fact that maybe you barely learned how to spell or do "grammer" during your primary years. I would think that anyone who graduated would be somewhat aware of what they were in for when they got out - especially in this economy.
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Being English I sometimes really feel for Americans having for to put up with people like this -->Clickety :wtf: I mean seriously, who is going to employ her now?
Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
This kind of thing makes me angry to be an American. Though I am certain it is not limited to us. I am baffled by someone who would put thier future in someone else's hands just because they said they would help them get a job. All I can think of is that there will be a multitude of Nigerians making money off of this one.