Digital Cameras, Olympus, Lithium Batteries - Magic or science?
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Here's the history: My wife and I have each owned a number of digital cameras. (an aside: my first digital camera was won on the auction site "Stuff" with the winning limerick: A Gentlemen selling with Stuff Often did so in the buff It may seem silly But he typed with his willy So Control-Alt-Delete was tough) The last few have been Olympus. Mine is a few years old now, but Mrs. Maxxx is on her third - having had the last two replaced under warranty within a twelvemonth of purchase. All of these cameras use AA batteries - hers 2 mine 4. The issue with her cameras was the same with each - it suddenly kept saying the batteries were flat, even with brand new ones. On switching on , the batteries show as fully charged, and work fine as long as you don' take a picture, zoom in or turn on the flash. If you do, the camera shows (briefly)_ the 'flat battery' warning, then freezes (exactly as if it has no power at all). But turn back on again, and the process repeats itself. The last time she sent it off, they returned it saying it was fine, but needed the right sort of batteries - Lithium ones. Well, I poo-pooed that. I could understand an old battery failing sooner than a lithium, but the camera not working because of the type - how does it know? Anyhoo- Mrs Maxxx forked out the extra cash for some lithium and the camera started working - and continues to do so. Coincidence thought I. Then last week my camera exhibited the same symptoms. (Mine is about three years old if not more - so warranty is out of the question). "Get some lithium batteries" says she who muse be obeyed. "How can that possibly make any difference?" quoth I, rolling my eyes and tutting (foolish move!) So - she bought me a pack of four (arf arf!) and I patiently inserted them into said camera, knowing that there was no chance of it working, as I had tried many brand new batteries, and rechargeable batteries to no effect. Imagine my surprise (and chagrin) then that the camera now works fine! Mrs Maxxx now walks the loungeroom with an air of superiority, for which she will certainly pay some time in the future, but in the meantime can anyone explain why this is so? How can a camera suddenly no longer work with non Lithium batteries?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Here's the history: My wife and I have each owned a number of digital cameras. (an aside: my first digital camera was won on the auction site "Stuff" with the winning limerick: A Gentlemen selling with Stuff Often did so in the buff It may seem silly But he typed with his willy So Control-Alt-Delete was tough) The last few have been Olympus. Mine is a few years old now, but Mrs. Maxxx is on her third - having had the last two replaced under warranty within a twelvemonth of purchase. All of these cameras use AA batteries - hers 2 mine 4. The issue with her cameras was the same with each - it suddenly kept saying the batteries were flat, even with brand new ones. On switching on , the batteries show as fully charged, and work fine as long as you don' take a picture, zoom in or turn on the flash. If you do, the camera shows (briefly)_ the 'flat battery' warning, then freezes (exactly as if it has no power at all). But turn back on again, and the process repeats itself. The last time she sent it off, they returned it saying it was fine, but needed the right sort of batteries - Lithium ones. Well, I poo-pooed that. I could understand an old battery failing sooner than a lithium, but the camera not working because of the type - how does it know? Anyhoo- Mrs Maxxx forked out the extra cash for some lithium and the camera started working - and continues to do so. Coincidence thought I. Then last week my camera exhibited the same symptoms. (Mine is about three years old if not more - so warranty is out of the question). "Get some lithium batteries" says she who muse be obeyed. "How can that possibly make any difference?" quoth I, rolling my eyes and tutting (foolish move!) So - she bought me a pack of four (arf arf!) and I patiently inserted them into said camera, knowing that there was no chance of it working, as I had tried many brand new batteries, and rechargeable batteries to no effect. Imagine my surprise (and chagrin) then that the camera now works fine! Mrs Maxxx now walks the loungeroom with an air of superiority, for which she will certainly pay some time in the future, but in the meantime can anyone explain why this is so? How can a camera suddenly no longer work with non Lithium batteries?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
At a guess I'd say it's the power output of Lithium-Ion batteries compared to normal batteries... Both higher mA, and more constant - ie: power, power, power, dead... as opposed to power, sluggish, more sluggish, eventually dead.
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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At a guess I'd say it's the power output of Lithium-Ion batteries compared to normal batteries... Both higher mA, and more constant - ie: power, power, power, dead... as opposed to power, sluggish, more sluggish, eventually dead.
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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Here's the history: My wife and I have each owned a number of digital cameras. (an aside: my first digital camera was won on the auction site "Stuff" with the winning limerick: A Gentlemen selling with Stuff Often did so in the buff It may seem silly But he typed with his willy So Control-Alt-Delete was tough) The last few have been Olympus. Mine is a few years old now, but Mrs. Maxxx is on her third - having had the last two replaced under warranty within a twelvemonth of purchase. All of these cameras use AA batteries - hers 2 mine 4. The issue with her cameras was the same with each - it suddenly kept saying the batteries were flat, even with brand new ones. On switching on , the batteries show as fully charged, and work fine as long as you don' take a picture, zoom in or turn on the flash. If you do, the camera shows (briefly)_ the 'flat battery' warning, then freezes (exactly as if it has no power at all). But turn back on again, and the process repeats itself. The last time she sent it off, they returned it saying it was fine, but needed the right sort of batteries - Lithium ones. Well, I poo-pooed that. I could understand an old battery failing sooner than a lithium, but the camera not working because of the type - how does it know? Anyhoo- Mrs Maxxx forked out the extra cash for some lithium and the camera started working - and continues to do so. Coincidence thought I. Then last week my camera exhibited the same symptoms. (Mine is about three years old if not more - so warranty is out of the question). "Get some lithium batteries" says she who muse be obeyed. "How can that possibly make any difference?" quoth I, rolling my eyes and tutting (foolish move!) So - she bought me a pack of four (arf arf!) and I patiently inserted them into said camera, knowing that there was no chance of it working, as I had tried many brand new batteries, and rechargeable batteries to no effect. Imagine my surprise (and chagrin) then that the camera now works fine! Mrs Maxxx now walks the loungeroom with an air of superiority, for which she will certainly pay some time in the future, but in the meantime can anyone explain why this is so? How can a camera suddenly no longer work with non Lithium batteries?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
I also observed the same with my Canon. It did't work with standard AA batteries, but worked with rechargable NiMH ones. I think as camera attempts to draw higher current (for running motor for zooming) the output voltage from pack of batteries drops (due to internal resistance), camera senses that and if found below its acceptable limit, declares that the batteries are low and quits. The problem with your camera which worked for many days with standard batteires but now works only with lithim batteires can probably be explained like this : Because of component aging the reference voltage of volt compare circuit changed. You can build a constant voltage supplying circuit, supply power to the camera with that circuit (using standard batteries), show that the camera works fine with standard batteries AND regain the "air of superiority".
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Here's the history: My wife and I have each owned a number of digital cameras. (an aside: my first digital camera was won on the auction site "Stuff" with the winning limerick: A Gentlemen selling with Stuff Often did so in the buff It may seem silly But he typed with his willy So Control-Alt-Delete was tough) The last few have been Olympus. Mine is a few years old now, but Mrs. Maxxx is on her third - having had the last two replaced under warranty within a twelvemonth of purchase. All of these cameras use AA batteries - hers 2 mine 4. The issue with her cameras was the same with each - it suddenly kept saying the batteries were flat, even with brand new ones. On switching on , the batteries show as fully charged, and work fine as long as you don' take a picture, zoom in or turn on the flash. If you do, the camera shows (briefly)_ the 'flat battery' warning, then freezes (exactly as if it has no power at all). But turn back on again, and the process repeats itself. The last time she sent it off, they returned it saying it was fine, but needed the right sort of batteries - Lithium ones. Well, I poo-pooed that. I could understand an old battery failing sooner than a lithium, but the camera not working because of the type - how does it know? Anyhoo- Mrs Maxxx forked out the extra cash for some lithium and the camera started working - and continues to do so. Coincidence thought I. Then last week my camera exhibited the same symptoms. (Mine is about three years old if not more - so warranty is out of the question). "Get some lithium batteries" says she who muse be obeyed. "How can that possibly make any difference?" quoth I, rolling my eyes and tutting (foolish move!) So - she bought me a pack of four (arf arf!) and I patiently inserted them into said camera, knowing that there was no chance of it working, as I had tried many brand new batteries, and rechargeable batteries to no effect. Imagine my surprise (and chagrin) then that the camera now works fine! Mrs Maxxx now walks the loungeroom with an air of superiority, for which she will certainly pay some time in the future, but in the meantime can anyone explain why this is so? How can a camera suddenly no longer work with non Lithium batteries?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Two things are at work here. One, each battery chemistry has a characteristic discharge curve - batteries with the same rated mAh and voltage can source different peak currents before the terminal voltage drops below an acceptable minimum. Two, each type also has a typical internal resistance which increases as the capacity is discharged. A regular alkaline (or, gods forbid, carbon-zinc) battery may have an adequate open-circuit voltage and be able to source sufficient current when brand new to emulate a Lithium cell, but as soon as a significant load is placed on the cell its terminal voltage drops below that needed to operate the camera properly. Better quality batteries might be able to work for a little while, but as that internal resistance increases with use the critical voltage will be reached quickly. Stick with the good stuff... Happy shooting!
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Two things are at work here. One, each battery chemistry has a characteristic discharge curve - batteries with the same rated mAh and voltage can source different peak currents before the terminal voltage drops below an acceptable minimum. Two, each type also has a typical internal resistance which increases as the capacity is discharged. A regular alkaline (or, gods forbid, carbon-zinc) battery may have an adequate open-circuit voltage and be able to source sufficient current when brand new to emulate a Lithium cell, but as soon as a significant load is placed on the cell its terminal voltage drops below that needed to operate the camera properly. Better quality batteries might be able to work for a little while, but as that internal resistance increases with use the critical voltage will be reached quickly. Stick with the good stuff... Happy shooting!
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
characteristic discharge curve
That's the phrase I was aiming for above!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
-
Here's the history: My wife and I have each owned a number of digital cameras. (an aside: my first digital camera was won on the auction site "Stuff" with the winning limerick: A Gentlemen selling with Stuff Often did so in the buff It may seem silly But he typed with his willy So Control-Alt-Delete was tough) The last few have been Olympus. Mine is a few years old now, but Mrs. Maxxx is on her third - having had the last two replaced under warranty within a twelvemonth of purchase. All of these cameras use AA batteries - hers 2 mine 4. The issue with her cameras was the same with each - it suddenly kept saying the batteries were flat, even with brand new ones. On switching on , the batteries show as fully charged, and work fine as long as you don' take a picture, zoom in or turn on the flash. If you do, the camera shows (briefly)_ the 'flat battery' warning, then freezes (exactly as if it has no power at all). But turn back on again, and the process repeats itself. The last time she sent it off, they returned it saying it was fine, but needed the right sort of batteries - Lithium ones. Well, I poo-pooed that. I could understand an old battery failing sooner than a lithium, but the camera not working because of the type - how does it know? Anyhoo- Mrs Maxxx forked out the extra cash for some lithium and the camera started working - and continues to do so. Coincidence thought I. Then last week my camera exhibited the same symptoms. (Mine is about three years old if not more - so warranty is out of the question). "Get some lithium batteries" says she who muse be obeyed. "How can that possibly make any difference?" quoth I, rolling my eyes and tutting (foolish move!) So - she bought me a pack of four (arf arf!) and I patiently inserted them into said camera, knowing that there was no chance of it working, as I had tried many brand new batteries, and rechargeable batteries to no effect. Imagine my surprise (and chagrin) then that the camera now works fine! Mrs Maxxx now walks the loungeroom with an air of superiority, for which she will certainly pay some time in the future, but in the meantime can anyone explain why this is so? How can a camera suddenly no longer work with non Lithium batteries?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Anyone know whether the power consumption of flash is higher if the card is full (or has lots of bad sectors) compared to if it's empty (or brand new)? That's the only thing I can think of that you could expect to "degrade"
Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
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Here's the history: My wife and I have each owned a number of digital cameras. (an aside: my first digital camera was won on the auction site "Stuff" with the winning limerick: A Gentlemen selling with Stuff Often did so in the buff It may seem silly But he typed with his willy So Control-Alt-Delete was tough) The last few have been Olympus. Mine is a few years old now, but Mrs. Maxxx is on her third - having had the last two replaced under warranty within a twelvemonth of purchase. All of these cameras use AA batteries - hers 2 mine 4. The issue with her cameras was the same with each - it suddenly kept saying the batteries were flat, even with brand new ones. On switching on , the batteries show as fully charged, and work fine as long as you don' take a picture, zoom in or turn on the flash. If you do, the camera shows (briefly)_ the 'flat battery' warning, then freezes (exactly as if it has no power at all). But turn back on again, and the process repeats itself. The last time she sent it off, they returned it saying it was fine, but needed the right sort of batteries - Lithium ones. Well, I poo-pooed that. I could understand an old battery failing sooner than a lithium, but the camera not working because of the type - how does it know? Anyhoo- Mrs Maxxx forked out the extra cash for some lithium and the camera started working - and continues to do so. Coincidence thought I. Then last week my camera exhibited the same symptoms. (Mine is about three years old if not more - so warranty is out of the question). "Get some lithium batteries" says she who muse be obeyed. "How can that possibly make any difference?" quoth I, rolling my eyes and tutting (foolish move!) So - she bought me a pack of four (arf arf!) and I patiently inserted them into said camera, knowing that there was no chance of it working, as I had tried many brand new batteries, and rechargeable batteries to no effect. Imagine my surprise (and chagrin) then that the camera now works fine! Mrs Maxxx now walks the loungeroom with an air of superiority, for which she will certainly pay some time in the future, but in the meantime can anyone explain why this is so? How can a camera suddenly no longer work with non Lithium batteries?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Don't know about these new lithium AA batteries - but I moved from a little Canon Powershot, which took 4AAs (I used rechargeables, 2500mAH each, so 10000mAH total) to a Nikon D60 which uses a little, proprietary lithium battery[^] with 1100mAH capacity. And I can take a lot more pictures on my D60 with one battery charge than I could with the Powershot. It's difficult to compare, as they're different cameras and all, but I can't help but think that the camera can use lithium batteries a lot more effectively. Still doesn't help when you do go out on a trip with a marginal battery charge, but without your spare battery...(I did that just last week, when I went on a boat trip round Port a Mao in Menorca. Grrrrr!!!!)
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p