Hmmm, don't know exactly how to react to this.
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"I wanna kill! KILL! KILL!, feel blood and guts upside my teeth!" -- Arlo Guthrie Oh, umm, ahem... Sounds OK to me. One thing I take exception to is the attitude of kids joining up in order to get the training and GI Bill etc. In my opinion, that's not the right reason to join up. If a kid is looking to join up out of a desire to do some good in the world, now might be a good time.
You really need to take a moment, and go visit Alice, at the Restaurant.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Dear Sir, Further to our previous recent correspondence I would like to confirm that we do not carry stock of the 'Camel Recognition Chart'. Perhaps you would advise us if the enclosed[^] is valid as a substitute?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Maximilien wrote:
You could go to the recruitment center with him
Good idea from a parents' perspective only. Would you want to start a service career as a Mummy's or Daddy's boy/girl?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
About a year ago the US Army was running an ad campaign with answering parents questions featured prominently; not much help to DD since he's in the UK. Regardless, your recruiter isn't going to be one of your DI's at boot camp so it shouldn't really matter.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Well if he's going you might try to point him in a specific direction from the start. If I had to I'd join up I would aim at being a sniper. Keep the enemy at a distance and have the biggest gun you can carry. It's no guarantee but it sounds better than front line infantry.
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My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Dalek Dave wrote:
I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety.
That's understandable - you're his Dad! At some point you really do have to let him go and find his way for himself, though.
Dalek Dave wrote:
I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert.
It ain't that simple anymore. One of our friends is in the Navy - and was posted to the desert in Afghanistan anyway. The Navy may not be at first line with the infantry, but they are definitely out there on the ground with the squaddies and the RAF.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army?
Of course, and of course. :)
Dalek Dave wrote:
(The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
LOL! I suspect it's actually a lot less dangerous, in many ways (I remember being absolutely terrified during the early 80s that a major European conflict would break out between the superpowers). The Afghan conflict is a pretty small one compared to what our Forces have had to do in the past, all things considered - but no less difficult or messy for that. :rose:
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Well if he's going you might try to point him in a specific direction from the start. If I had to I'd join up I would aim at being a sniper. Keep the enemy at a distance and have the biggest gun you can carry. It's no guarantee but it sounds better than front line infantry.
Nah - REME. You can never have enough people with big spanners and the attitude to use them, after all. ;)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
For some reason Tommmy by Rudyard Kipling has been on my mind a lot today and I have no clue as to why. It has been nice to read through the comments though and see no attacks on the Armed Forces. I know that my friends and family in the Armed Forces have generally pointed to Navy or Air Force as first choice even though most have been in the Army or Marines. As I have no children, I'll refrain from any advice on over-protectiveness, but as a son I hated my mom's constant worrying and valued the encouragement.
Some people sail through life on a bed of roses like a knife slicing through butter.
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My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Any loss is one too many, but he may not be at any more risk in the Afghanistan/Iraq combat situations than he would be in training. I read a set of statistics that showed the injury/loss rate was relatively constant or even slightly lower during the worst of the Iraq combat compared to the long term non combat periods. I wish I could back this up with a reference, but I read the statistics a several years ago. You might also steer him towards a technical specialty. This would have several advantages; a longer training period and more than likely an assignment far removed from the front line. Both of which may reduce his exposure to combat. Plus his training would probably be more salable than a combat badge in the future.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
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Douglas Troy wrote:
tell him whatever decision he makes, you'll stand behind him; it's all you can really do now.
Indeed, I will back him to the hilt, and it will give him a grounding in the real world. I think I am just paranoid, but whilt you hear for the men who die, you don't hear of the many thousands that come back completely unscathed. As mentioned above, you could get run over in the street. I chat with other old soldiers, and people who have never served refuse to believe some of the tales we tell, but anyone who has been in uniform knows that once you put it on, you are through the looking glass into an alternative reality where weird things do happen! I had a great time in my three years, although was a bit hairy in Northern Ireland. I look back with pride and pleasure, and sometimes wonder what it would have been like had I made a creer out of it, instead of a short service in the colours.
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Dalek Dave wrote:
whilt you hear for the men who die, you don't hear of the many thousands that come back completely unscathed.
You also don't hear about the thousands of damaged units who come back. The Navy sounds good until you get riverboat duty ferrying Marines into battle. No service is safe in wartime but the Navy or Air Force have more positions that are safer. Having said that, if your son is gung ho and wants to be a paratrooper he may also gravitate towards Navy Seal (US Navy equivalent of US Army Special Forces), Air Force reconnaissance, or some such dangerous assignment in any service. It is hard to temper a 19 year old with raging hormones, but it is your responsibility as a father to try. If he doesn't listen it is his decision, but at least you know you have tried. The approach you take depends on your relationship with your son. Good luck to the both of you.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
It's weird that we have to go half way across the world to defend what little freedoms we have. What sorts of freedom did we forget there?
I find it curious that I mention protecting our freedom and you drag the Iraq conflict into this, when I never mentioned it. Never said we should be there, never said we should be involved there, didn't mention it. And I am not going to get dragged into a debate that belongs in the SoapBox here in the lounge, so I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
how about freedoms that were taken away by supreme court and congress right here?
I do not disagree with that, but if only easily corrupted persons serve in both politics and the military that will never change will it. We need more good people in these fields, and I am going to assume for a moment that Dave's son is one such person. But again, this belongs in the SoapBox, not here.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
I'd bet your parking lot at 9pm is still safer than Iraq at noon.
My point was that not joining the military doesn't make your life any safer. Plenty of people have served and never seen a day of combat in all the years of their service. Others don't make it back alive from boot camp. The same could be said for people leaving to go to work every day; I could make it home tonight, but you could be turned into street pizza when a Semi-Truck plows into you head first. Just because you join, doesn't mean you are going to die; and just because you DON'T join, doesn't mean you are going to live.
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTLDouglas Troy wrote:
if only easily corrupted persons serve in both politics and the military that will never change will it
That is why I advocate a draft. I know it is unpopular but it democratizes the military.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Dave, he is 19. An adult. He wants to make something of his life and he is looking for your support and guidance. Give him the support and guidance he needs. However, give him a "taste" of what might be. Set his alarm at strange times during the night. Awake him in a rude manner at some ungodly hour for a "run around the block". Make sure he gets the right creases in the right places on his clothes and make him do it time and again until he can iron almost blind-folded. Cook his own meals with the very basic of equipment and foodstuffs. You get the picture ... If he is like most other 19 year olds, he likes his bed and other comforts. This "taster" might help to make his mind up for him.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Set his alarm at strange times during the night.
One first sergeant in a training regiment used to come through the barracks banging trash can lids together at 04:30 for us to go out on a forced march before breakfast. That is the type of rude awakening he should be prepared for if he joins the Army or Marines.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
I'm biased. Talk him into the Navy! :) Whatever he decides, respect it and be happy he made an informed decision. It is easy to get in trouble no matter what force he goes into, being young and all. I observe this all the time and I was 20 years old when I entered active duty. It will be tough for him but very rewarding. I earned my degree with the Montgomery GI Bill and I never thought I would get a degree with have a good full-time job but I achieved my goal. You're son will only get out of the military what he wants to get out of it. Good Luck!
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - Last.fm - MyFriendfeed - Joesox.com
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Well if he's going you might try to point him in a specific direction from the start. If I had to I'd join up I would aim at being a sniper. Keep the enemy at a distance and have the biggest gun you can carry. It's no guarantee but it sounds better than front line infantry.
and every M%^&*%^$%er on the battlefield from Machine gunners through artillery to strike helicopters is going to be raining down their vengeance on your ass, No thankyou.
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My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Aged about 20 I decided that what I needed to do in life was to join "The Regiment" and follow in father's footsteps. At the time my parents were highly supportive of my actions. My father was happy to explain the finer workings of the armed forces etc. In the end due to a knee injury early in basic training I took some time away and joined the TA, initially to get some experience and wait for another intake. I failed to get out on the postings I applied for and decided that if my training would never get used there wasn't much point carrying on and left. After I'd decided that life in Civvie street was the thing for me I discovered that my parents had never been too keen on the idea but knew that it was something that I wanted to do so had stood behind me in my decisions. Of course the TA isn't the place it was, you can't just try it out with no danger of being posted anywhere unless you want to go anymore.
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My Son, Thomas, has just rung me at work to say that he has been to the Army Careers Office and is looking at signing up and wants to have a conversation about what/where etc. Given the current tensions in the world I am a little Parentally Concerned. However, he will be the 9th Generation in the Forces, (I come from a Military Family, have Aunts, Uncles, Cousins etc who over the years have served in all branches of the military). He has been going off the rails since leaving college and says he is fed up with learning so is not going to Uni. (Fair enough, he can always go back and do a degree later if he wishes). Given the Job situation there is an opportunity for him to have a three year service, wherein he is watered, fed and housed, given a trade training and get the opportunity to do things he could not do in Civvie Street. I know all this, I served 20 odd years ago. I think it would be a marvellous opportunity, but just am worried about his safety. I will try to talk him round to the Navy, as there are very few ships needed in the desert. However he says he would like to go Airbourne, either Para's or my old mob, 7th RHA. Am I being over-protective of him (he is nearly 19), or should I encourage him to push as hard as he can in the Army? (The world is a different place from my day, all I had to worry about was hoards of Soviets and Nuclear bombs, it is a lot more dangerous these days).
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
If I were in the same situation, I would discourage him. You are not being over-protective, and from what I see around me, a today 19-year-old has nothing to do anymore with a 19-year-old from a dozen years ago. Seems like majority comes around 24. Of course, making a career in the army has no such prestige in France as it has elsewhere in the world. It is seen here as a way to get to a job if you can't do anything else with your hands or brain... You're the Dad, and I fully understand that you want to protect him. Try to find out what his motivations really are, and try and find out if they are worth taking the step.
~RaGE();
I think words like 'destiny' are a way of trying to find order where none exists. - Christian Graus
Do not feed the troll ! - Common proverb -
Dalek Dave wrote:
whilt you hear for the men who die, you don't hear of the many thousands that come back completely unscathed.
You also don't hear about the thousands of damaged units who come back. The Navy sounds good until you get riverboat duty ferrying Marines into battle. No service is safe in wartime but the Navy or Air Force have more positions that are safer. Having said that, if your son is gung ho and wants to be a paratrooper he may also gravitate towards Navy Seal (US Navy equivalent of US Army Special Forces), Air Force reconnaissance, or some such dangerous assignment in any service. It is hard to temper a 19 year old with raging hormones, but it is your responsibility as a father to try. If he doesn't listen it is his decision, but at least you know you have tried. The approach you take depends on your relationship with your son. Good luck to the both of you.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Having said that, if your son is gung ho and wants to be a paratrooper he may also gravitate towards Navy Seal
DD's a brit, so it's be the SBS, not the SEALs...
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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and every M%^&*%^$%er on the battlefield from Machine gunners through artillery to strike helicopters is going to be raining down their vengeance on your ass, No thankyou.
You have a point there. If your fighting another actual army you need to worry about those things. I was thinking more about the current wars going on where the combatants are lucky to be armed with AK-47s and camels. Guess I'll leave my simpering to Call of Duty 4. :)
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Having said that, if your son is gung ho and wants to be a paratrooper he may also gravitate towards Navy Seal
DD's a brit, so it's be the SBS, not the SEALs...
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
dan neely wrote:
DD's a brit
I know that and it is why I explained what a Seal is. I didn't know what they call them in GB but I suspect he figured out what I was trying to say based on my explaination of what a Navy Seal is in the US Navy.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes