Which SVN client do you like best?
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If you have something to say, then say it. Otherwise, keep your drooling to yourself.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Well said. :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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Well said. :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
Well said for a mouth-breather, I suppose. His comment made me laugh first because he can't tell the difference between "stays out of the IDE" and "gets right up in that mother". Next it made me laugh because he thinks $49 is "well worth" what better options do for free. At the time, I chose not to elaborate so clearly because that would be cruel to dumb animals, but since he chose to hypocritically insult me while also saying nothing useful (and you enthusiastically supported that), what the hell? You're both idiots. He he he. Keep the laughs coming. :-)
Codemonkeys don't do it at all. Too busy coding.
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What's so funny in his post? Would you mind sharing the humor with others?
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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needs to integrate with visual studio
VisualSVN any time of the day.
-- Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time - Bertrand Russel
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Nothing can beat TortoiseSVN. All Linux guys - who've been on Windows before - are crying when they find our that Tortoise is Windows only
I agree, TortoiseSVN is good. Nice easy interface.
Uday Takbhate http://www.linkedin.com/in/udayt http://www.finalresort.in/
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Well said for a mouth-breather, I suppose. His comment made me laugh first because he can't tell the difference between "stays out of the IDE" and "gets right up in that mother". Next it made me laugh because he thinks $49 is "well worth" what better options do for free. At the time, I chose not to elaborate so clearly because that would be cruel to dumb animals, but since he chose to hypocritically insult me while also saying nothing useful (and you enthusiastically supported that), what the hell? You're both idiots. He he he. Keep the laughs coming. :-)
Codemonkeys don't do it at all. Too busy coding.
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Well said for a mouth-breather, I suppose. His comment made me laugh first because he can't tell the difference between "stays out of the IDE" and "gets right up in that mother". Next it made me laugh because he thinks $49 is "well worth" what better options do for free. At the time, I chose not to elaborate so clearly because that would be cruel to dumb animals, but since he chose to hypocritically insult me while also saying nothing useful (and you enthusiastically supported that), what the hell? You're both idiots. He he he. Keep the laughs coming. :-)
Codemonkeys don't do it at all. Too busy coding.
He asked you for an explanation, so give it to him. If you have to talk to me, then first stop behaving like a troll. And people who ask you to give an explanation (in place of your meaningless posts) are mouth breathers, dumb animals, and idiots?! So, you have absolutely no point to contribute to the discussion, but you're trying to be abusive to gain some attention. How about me sending your useless post where it belongs to, by voting it abusive?
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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needs to integrate with visual studio
I prefer even sourcesafe to svn/cvs...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I use AnkhSVN. Works well for me, but I don't do commercial development. Those closer to the grindstone might have reasons not to use it.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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VisualSVN (the latest version) is by far, in my opinion, the best thing to use for subversion if you develop in Visual Studio. We use both Blend and Visual Studio, and after using VisualSVN and its seamless integration with Visual Studio, working "manually" with Blend and TortoiseSVN is bloody painful as hell. I've had exactly 0 problems with VisualSVN. I can add, remove, drag, rename, etc in the IDE and not worry about whether what I'm doing is going to break TortoiseSVN or not - VisualSVN takes care of everything. On the other hand, you really have to be quite careful with using TortoiseSVN directly. Delete or rename a file the "normal" way by habit and you have problems. Rename a folder ("properly") and then modify its contents, and rename some child folder ("properly") wihtout committing first, and you have problems. I avoid working directly with TortoiseSVN whenever possible. VisualSVN lets me do things the way I'm already used to without second guessing..."should I use the "normal" command or the "special" command?" Just try VisualSVN for the 30 day trial...you won't look back.
The 'limitations' you're talking of are really the 'limitations' of SVN, not of TortoiseSVN (or any other tool for that matter). And it is no limitation at all once you understand there are three levels of abstraction you are working with: your file system, the subversion client (which is what TortoiseSVN encapsulates), and the subversion server. I don't know about newer versions, but it's impossible to move files from inside Visual Studio 2003. That means you'll never even run into the kind of problems you describe, unless you're doing things outside VS already! And short of editing the VS project files manually(!) it is rather tedious to clean up the mess created by such moving around. Better not bother, or best just set up the whole project/solution anew! That said, I've tried earlier versions of Ankh SVN (the newer ones sadly only work with newer versions of VS), and apart from seeing the state of each file inside the Solution Explorer I found I got little use out of it. One of the more annoying things is that it tends to switch the common output window to display Ankh messages instead of build or debug messages. And it does that way too often for my taste! The only reason I still have it is that in my experience removing a tool from the VS interface tends to leave some ugly remnants in the VS UI, even if in the file system there is not a single other trace left of the tool in question! One thing I definitely didn't like about AnkhSVN - and I am sure that still is true for newer versions of both VS and AnkhSVN, as well as VisualSVN - is when you do soemthing from inside VS, TortoiseSVN does't update file and directory status by itself, and vice versa. You can easily get confused if you use both, and since TortoiseSVN offers much more functionality, I'd advise to only use this. Also, you'll often have files related to a project that are not accessible from VS, simply because they are not code or resouce files: for example files created by an UML tool that itself is used to generate the initial code, or even gets synchronised with your code base. You cannot properly handle these files from within VS, so you need TortoiseSVN for that task. TortoiseSVN is _the_ client for SVN. Maybe if you have a newer versio of VS, AnkhSVN or VisualSVN might provide some of TortoiseSVN's utility from inside
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He asked you for an explanation, so give it to him. If you have to talk to me, then first stop behaving like a troll. And people who ask you to give an explanation (in place of your meaningless posts) are mouth breathers, dumb animals, and idiots?! So, you have absolutely no point to contribute to the discussion, but you're trying to be abusive to gain some attention. How about me sending your useless post where it belongs to, by voting it abusive?
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
I gave it to him, so why are you demanding that I give it to him again? Oh, that's right, it's because you don't fucking read the posts you criticize. You just assume you know what they say and proceed to attack. If you choose to continue being a hypocrite, then I'll be happy to return the abusive mods. But if you think you're going to frighten me, grow the hell up you spoiled child. Oh noes, he's going to mod me because I don't kowtow to him. Whatever shall I do? He he he.
Codemonkeys don't do it at all. Too busy coding.
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I gave it to him, so why are you demanding that I give it to him again? Oh, that's right, it's because you don't fucking read the posts you criticize. You just assume you know what they say and proceed to attack. If you choose to continue being a hypocrite, then I'll be happy to return the abusive mods. But if you think you're going to frighten me, grow the hell up you spoiled child. Oh noes, he's going to mod me because I don't kowtow to him. Whatever shall I do? He he he.
Codemonkeys don't do it at all. Too busy coding.
Naruki wrote:
I gave it to him, so why are you demanding that I give it to him again?
Probably it's too dark up there. If you try and take your head out for a moment, you'll see that you replied to me, and not to him.
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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I prefer even sourcesafe to svn/cvs...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001In a single user environment, VSS tends to run resonably well, and if your repository is on your own hard drive, it's even reasonably fast - although it will tend to fragment your drive no end! Every commited change will create a new file on your filesystem - the horror! In a multi user environment - even if it's only two people - VSS tends to be slow, unreliable, and prone to data loss or repository conflicts. You may not be able to notice it within a week or two, but IME, running it for 10 users over the course of more than a few weeks requires you to run the builtin repository cleanup at least once a week, or it will simply stop working. And every cleanup is likely to destroy some of the history of your development as well! Not to mention that it's entirely possible some of the data that got destroyed is actually part of your current code base. And more often than not, since older versions of your code normally compile just as well, you'll not even find out about that until much later, when your clients start complaining about a bug you fixed years ago! VSS is a sure way of destroying your work. TYVM, I don't need a tool for that.
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In a single user environment, VSS tends to run resonably well, and if your repository is on your own hard drive, it's even reasonably fast - although it will tend to fragment your drive no end! Every commited change will create a new file on your filesystem - the horror! In a multi user environment - even if it's only two people - VSS tends to be slow, unreliable, and prone to data loss or repository conflicts. You may not be able to notice it within a week or two, but IME, running it for 10 users over the course of more than a few weeks requires you to run the builtin repository cleanup at least once a week, or it will simply stop working. And every cleanup is likely to destroy some of the history of your development as well! Not to mention that it's entirely possible some of the data that got destroyed is actually part of your current code base. And more often than not, since older versions of your code normally compile just as well, you'll not even find out about that until much later, when your clients start complaining about a bug you fixed years ago! VSS is a sure way of destroying your work. TYVM, I don't need a tool for that.
I'm aware of all of that (and you're taking a big risk if your repository gets to be larger than 8gb), but I still prefer sourcesafe to svn (no exclusive checkout - the horror!) or cvs (non-standard nomenclature and downright unstable)... I've been in three environments (5 users, 12 users, 6 users) that used sourcesafe over the last 10 years, and we never once lost code due to sourcesafe's deficiencies. The primary problem most source control apps have is that they don't show files that are currently checked out and by whom in real-time. You have to try to check the files out to find out that you can't. Also, most source control apps don't show files that have changed since your last update in real-time. These are my two biggest pet peeves with source safe, and even cvs and svn.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
So I guess Tortoise is the winner??
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I'm aware of all of that (and you're taking a big risk if your repository gets to be larger than 8gb), but I still prefer sourcesafe to svn (no exclusive checkout - the horror!) or cvs (non-standard nomenclature and downright unstable)... I've been in three environments (5 users, 12 users, 6 users) that used sourcesafe over the last 10 years, and we never once lost code due to sourcesafe's deficiencies. The primary problem most source control apps have is that they don't show files that are currently checked out and by whom in real-time. You have to try to check the files out to find out that you can't. Also, most source control apps don't show files that have changed since your last update in real-time. These are my two biggest pet peeves with source safe, and even cvs and svn.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001You can exclusively checkout in SVN, although you are right in that you don't get to see in real time whether a file is locked or not, unless you specifically query the repository. But that is rather easy using TortoiseSVN, and on top of that a lot faster than VSS as well. You probably won't see a lot of problems with only 5 or 6 users, and if all are working at the same local network, maybe not even 12. But that very much depends on the project and how likely it is that two people would need to work on the same files at the same time. That said, non-exclusive checkout is much less of a problem than some people think. In truth, SVN doesn't really do that: the files that you have on our own hard drive are not considered checked out files, but rather a copy of the repository's state at a given time. You only 'checkout' the moment immediately before you try to commit your changes to the repository. At that point, your SVN client will make sure that nobody else changed something in the meantiem, and if someone did, will reject the commit and ask you to adapt your changes to the new state of these files. Luckily it can do this on it's own, using 'merge' - and here is probably the cause of your and many other people's horror: The computer will automatically do the job of merging other people's changes with yours, without you supervising it. Can you believe that the computer can do this job more reliably than you? Obviously the answer is 'no' for you. I admit that I used to be rather sceptical of this specific aspect of non-exclusive version management system myself, but over the years I have learned that it is, in fact, the better way! Not only does it safe a lot of work for the user, it is also at least as reliable in doing this as most people doing it by hand! Moreover, it _will_ reliably point out possible conflicts and leave those for the user to resolve. I have used VSS in various projects with 3 to 20+ people over more than 10 years, and I've used SVN in projects of 3-20+ people in the last 5-6 years. I must say I don't miss the waiting for the repository to respond, I don't miss the downtimes due to a much needed cleanup, I don't miss having to wait for other users to checkin their stuff even though they actually never changed the file I want to edit. And I don't miss having to refix an old bug that I did fix before, but got lost in the void eventually. And yes, this happened on quite a few occasions. We could even make our repository or parts of it(!) accessible over the web if ever we wanted
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Naruki wrote:
I gave it to him, so why are you demanding that I give it to him again?
Probably it's too dark up there. If you try and take your head out for a moment, you'll see that you replied to me, and not to him.
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
You're like a regular Einstein up in here: brain dead for several decades. It's called a thread. It's where several people can see the course of a conversation. Just because a reply was to your comment doesn't mean he can't read it, or that it wasn't meant for both of you. You idiots get your panties bunched up way too easily.
Codemonkeys don't do it at all. Too busy coding.
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What's so funny in his post? Would you mind sharing the humor with others?
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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needs to integrate with visual studio
If you absolutely need integration into VS, AnkhSvn works quite well. Make sure you get the most recent version, which is compatible with both VS 2005 and 2008. Might work with 2010 as well, haven't tried it. It's unobtrusive, for the most part. It's biggest benefit is that it allows one to rename files from within the IDE, something that is, depending on one's irritation threshold, a minor or major pain in the posterior using either the CLI, Tortoise, or other non-integrated client. It still doesn't do so well with moving files between projects, and apparently doesn't fully support all Visual Studio project types yet, but so far, it's failings have not hindered me, and it's actually made my life a bit easier. I still use TSVN for diffs and merges and such, and the CLI for scripting, but AnkhSvn is well worth a look. And it's free. Brad