MonoDevelop IDE now runs on Windows, Mac
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Mono works on the Mac too, right ? I assume there's no WPF support in Mono yet ? Eclipse does suck. It seems to me that no matter how much VS sucks, no team of volunteers is going to catch the head start MS has. They can write something simple and solid, but not match the feature set. Reading the ASP.NET forums, a lot of 'programmers' today are stuck when a wizard fails, when they can't build something by clicking the mouse a few times, so I can see this project creating something useful to programmers, but not to most people being paid to generate code today.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christopher Duncan brought this up a while back here in the lounge. The general consensus was like you mentioned, that MS is just so far ahead of the game because they got in so early that no team of unsupported developers will catch up. He also firmly believed that should an alternative IDE exist that does not suffer from ESD then that team will be filthy rich. We're talking hamsters in mansions with pools, Ferrari cars, private jets and guinea pig escorts - rich.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Mono works on the Mac too, right ? I assume there's no WPF support in Mono yet ? Eclipse does suck. It seems to me that no matter how much VS sucks, no team of volunteers is going to catch the head start MS has. They can write something simple and solid, but not match the feature set. Reading the ASP.NET forums, a lot of 'programmers' today are stuck when a wizard fails, when they can't build something by clicking the mouse a few times, so I can see this project creating something useful to programmers, but not to most people being paid to generate code today.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Eclipse does suck.
What sucks in it? From what I have used in developing Java applications. 1. Java refactoring works great 2. IDE is highly extensible and can do lot of things 3. Java intellisense works great I have had no complains with it so far. The only problems I had was the difference in paradigm from VS.
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Christopher Duncan brought this up a while back here in the lounge. The general consensus was like you mentioned, that MS is just so far ahead of the game because they got in so early that no team of unsupported developers will catch up. He also firmly believed that should an alternative IDE exist that does not suffer from ESD then that team will be filthy rich. We're talking hamsters in mansions with pools, Ferrari cars, private jets and guinea pig escorts - rich.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
should an alternative IDE exist that does not suffer from ESD
Hi Mustafa, I am curious : by ESD do you mean "electrostatic discharge" or "electro-shock deterioration" referring to brain damage as a result of convulsive therapies for conditions like deep endogenous depression ... or is there another meaning I'm not aware of ? Being, by nature, a "language hound," I sniff an interesting trail here. thanks, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
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Miguel de Icaza, head of the Mono project, announced a new release of MonoDevelop[^], a multi-language IDE that now runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
We intend to make MonoDevelop the Eclipse of the .NET community. Just like Eclipse became the foundation for Java development, we hope that MonoDevelop will become the foundation for .NET development, and hopefully for much more than that.
On their multi-language support,
We are not religious when it comes to supporting other programming languages. We want to embrace not only .NET-based projects like Gtk#, Silverlight, ASP.NET, Boo, C#, F#, Visual Basic and Windows.Forms. We are also embracing other developer platforms like Python, C/C++, Vala, and we want to expand our presence to work with the Flash, PHP, Ruby, Rails, Flex and any other communities that need a cross platform IDE.
:cool: Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio? :-) In all seriousness, given the various designer headaches I've had with VS, I'm willing to try this alternative.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
This is a great project. I wonder how far MonoDevelop is from SharpDevelop these days.
Daniel Vaughan Blog: DanielVaughan.Orpius.com
Company: Outcoder -
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
should an alternative IDE exist that does not suffer from ESD
Hi Mustafa, I am curious : by ESD do you mean "electrostatic discharge" or "electro-shock deterioration" referring to brain damage as a result of convulsive therapies for conditions like deep endogenous depression ... or is there another meaning I'm not aware of ? Being, by nature, a "language hound," I sniff an interesting trail here. thanks, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
ESD in CPTalk is "Everything Sucks Disease" :)
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Christian Graus wrote:
Eclipse does suck.
What sucks in it? From what I have used in developing Java applications. 1. Java refactoring works great 2. IDE is highly extensible and can do lot of things 3. Java intellisense works great I have had no complains with it so far. The only problems I had was the difference in paradigm from VS.
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Miguel de Icaza, head of the Mono project, announced a new release of MonoDevelop[^], a multi-language IDE that now runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
We intend to make MonoDevelop the Eclipse of the .NET community. Just like Eclipse became the foundation for Java development, we hope that MonoDevelop will become the foundation for .NET development, and hopefully for much more than that.
On their multi-language support,
We are not religious when it comes to supporting other programming languages. We want to embrace not only .NET-based projects like Gtk#, Silverlight, ASP.NET, Boo, C#, F#, Visual Basic and Windows.Forms. We are also embracing other developer platforms like Python, C/C++, Vala, and we want to expand our presence to work with the Flash, PHP, Ruby, Rails, Flex and any other communities that need a cross platform IDE.
:cool: Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio? :-) In all seriousness, given the various designer headaches I've had with VS, I'm willing to try this alternative.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio?
Yes, but no. Meaning, that I'd be willing to look at bailing on VS if a truly quality product came along, but it won't, so I won't be ditching VS any time soon. (In the C++ world, Borland had a chance to take Microsoft to the cleaners and totally blew it. And that's for a language Microsoft all but abandoned for almost eight years, and considering all the problem with VS 2005, arguably longer.)
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Christian Graus wrote:
Eclipse does suck.
What sucks in it? From what I have used in developing Java applications. 1. Java refactoring works great 2. IDE is highly extensible and can do lot of things 3. Java intellisense works great I have had no complains with it so far. The only problems I had was the difference in paradigm from VS.
It's slow. When I used it, it didn't seem to be more than a glorified text editor, missing even the most simple features. It's ugly ( because it's written in Java ). I found it unusable.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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It's slow. When I used it, it didn't seem to be more than a glorified text editor, missing even the most simple features. It's ugly ( because it's written in Java ). I found it unusable.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
It might have been long time back. I think it is superior to VS in some respects (refactoring being one of them): I am comparing (Java development in Eclipse and C# development in VS).
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It might have been long time back. I think it is superior to VS in some respects (refactoring being one of them): I am comparing (Java development in Eclipse and C# development in VS).
I used it about 7 years ago, I reckon. So, it could have changed, I am basing my comments on my own experience AND the fact that everyone else seems to agree, I've never before seen anyone post or say that it's improved with time.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I used it about 7 years ago, I reckon. So, it could have changed, I am basing my comments on my own experience AND the fact that everyone else seems to agree, I've never before seen anyone post or say that it's improved with time.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Well, in 7 years it has certainly improved, but its still no where close to the league VS plays in.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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It takes enough time to load that I can get coffee and it's still loading when I come back
harold aptroot wrote:
It takes enough time to load that I can get coffee and it's still loading when I come back
You athlete you! :laugh:
Wout
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Miguel de Icaza, head of the Mono project, announced a new release of MonoDevelop[^], a multi-language IDE that now runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
We intend to make MonoDevelop the Eclipse of the .NET community. Just like Eclipse became the foundation for Java development, we hope that MonoDevelop will become the foundation for .NET development, and hopefully for much more than that.
On their multi-language support,
We are not religious when it comes to supporting other programming languages. We want to embrace not only .NET-based projects like Gtk#, Silverlight, ASP.NET, Boo, C#, F#, Visual Basic and Windows.Forms. We are also embracing other developer platforms like Python, C/C++, Vala, and we want to expand our presence to work with the Flash, PHP, Ruby, Rails, Flex and any other communities that need a cross platform IDE.
:cool: Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio? :-) In all seriousness, given the various designer headaches I've had with VS, I'm willing to try this alternative.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio?
Yep, as soon as I get used to windbg, which is not really happening...
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Well, in 7 years it has certainly improved, but its still no where close to the league VS plays in.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
no where close to the league VS plays in
Really! I had reverse impression. I found that refactoring and overall code assistance in Eclipse is superior to what VS provides natively. Resharper improved it in VS but again Resharper is from the guys who developed IntelliJ idea: a Java IDE. Of course, IntelliJ idea is extremely superior to both. My impression has been that Eclipse and other Java IDEs concentrate on improving the productivity of programmers where as VS concentrates more on trivializing the programming so that even non-programmers program. Both of these have their place. Again, I am not talking about Eclipse C++ or Eclipse outside the context of Java.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Eclipse does suck.
What sucks in it? From what I have used in developing Java applications. 1. Java refactoring works great 2. IDE is highly extensible and can do lot of things 3. Java intellisense works great I have had no complains with it so far. The only problems I had was the difference in paradigm from VS.
It crashes on me regularly. Actually, it doesn't crash, it just disappears silently. Java intellisense sucks: if I type too fast, it doesn't provide any list of members, so I have to backspace to the dot, type a new dot, and wait for the auto complete list to come up. IMO, it's better in some ways than VS, worse in others. Overall, I like VS much better than Eclipse, and use Eclipse only when Java dev work is required.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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It takes enough time to load that I can get coffee and it's still loading when I come back
Are you Usain Bolt posting under a different name? 'Cause Weblogic Workshop (built on top of Eclipse) takes as much time as VS, I can't say one is clearly faster than the other.
Cheers, Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
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Judah Himango wrote:
Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio?
Yep, as soon as I get used to windbg, which is not really happening...
Windbg is a complement to VS, not a replacement. ;) (A bloody nice complement, once you figure out how to use it!)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Miguel de Icaza, head of the Mono project, announced a new release of MonoDevelop[^], a multi-language IDE that now runs on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
We intend to make MonoDevelop the Eclipse of the .NET community. Just like Eclipse became the foundation for Java development, we hope that MonoDevelop will become the foundation for .NET development, and hopefully for much more than that.
On their multi-language support,
We are not religious when it comes to supporting other programming languages. We want to embrace not only .NET-based projects like Gtk#, Silverlight, ASP.NET, Boo, C#, F#, Visual Basic and Windows.Forms. We are also embracing other developer platforms like Python, C/C++, Vala, and we want to expand our presence to work with the Flash, PHP, Ruby, Rails, Flex and any other communities that need a cross platform IDE.
:cool: Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio? :-) In all seriousness, given the various designer headaches I've had with VS, I'm willing to try this alternative.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
I wonder what the bearded super commies of the open free source flock says about this. :~
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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Judah Himango wrote:
Anyone up for ditching Visual Studio?
Yes, but no. Meaning, that I'd be willing to look at bailing on VS if a truly quality product came along, but it won't, so I won't be ditching VS any time soon. (In the C++ world, Borland had a chance to take Microsoft to the cleaners and totally blew it. And that's for a language Microsoft all but abandoned for almost eight years, and considering all the problem with VS 2005, arguably longer.)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
In the C++ world, Borland had a chance to take Microsoft to the cleaners and totally blew it.
Well, in the early days of Boland they did take Microsoft to the cleaners. They beat them up badly, but then got toooooo big for their britches and boom, junk started coming out. I started on Lattice C and Microsoft C back in the good old days, but then came along Turbo C. Hmm.. $50 to almost $500... The programming world moved quickly and Microsoft was hurting for certian. Borland's price kept going up with quality going down and Microsoft's price coming down along with quality going up. Borland C++ 5.0 was a horrible pile of bad code and finally drove me back on the MS train and have not found a reason to get off the train yet ;) Although the price of some of their tools could crash the train, they have provided ways around those for those in need. While the Express line of tools may not be all that the commercail products are, it is great the hobbists have them to work with until they can move up. I could not image a free client/server database for free back in the day nor tools of the quality of the Express packages back then. Opps.. Sorry for running on there... :)
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Chocolate Chip Cookies!
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Mono works on the Mac too, right ? I assume there's no WPF support in Mono yet ? Eclipse does suck. It seems to me that no matter how much VS sucks, no team of volunteers is going to catch the head start MS has. They can write something simple and solid, but not match the feature set. Reading the ASP.NET forums, a lot of 'programmers' today are stuck when a wizard fails, when they can't build something by clicking the mouse a few times, so I can see this project creating something useful to programmers, but not to most people being paid to generate code today.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
no team of volunteers is going to catch the head start MS has.
You should try Embarcadero's RAD Studio, I think they tried to surpass MS for suckiness in IDEs with this one, and succeeded.
He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man