Am I biased, or is VB stupid?
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
VB is a tool like any other language. It has its uses. For example, VB is a great for teaching studtents what a bad language looks like :) Todd Smith
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Ray Cassick wrote: I am willing to bet you that an average C++ program would contain way more characters than the average VB application. Hmmmm. Dim a as Integer a = 0 vs int a = 0; :beer:
Ok, now make a Windows GUI application that actually DOES something. Somehow I figured he would do that...
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
Adam Arthur wrote: ... But doesn't VB stink? No it has its place. Adam Arthur wrote: As a primarily C++ programmer Me to. Adam Arthur wrote: which is obviously a superior language Yes. Adam Arthur wrote: I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? You can get a lot done, and very quickly, and in the right hands you can have oh so much fun. Such as confusing VB programmers that do not have experience with lower level languages. You can, if you try, get at the following in VB: Pointers - YES you can. Multi threading - in VB6!!!! IUnknown - the best. They realy do ask what IUnknown is. Just use some imagination, and start using the language for things it was never intended. This has the added advantage of keeping you in a job, as none of the VB 'only' programmers will go near your code without filling their trousers.:-D As I said it has its place - currently, I find, its great for job security. As for VBA then it goes one better with VBE - code that writes itself. Like a dog sniffing its behind. ;) And if you don't believe me. http://www.codeproject.com/useritems/how_to_do_pointers_in_visual_basic.asp[^] http://www.cpearson.com/excel/vbe.htm[^] Can't seem to find the VB one, it was an article on MSDN a few years back. If I can dig it out I'll send it.
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Ok, now make a Windows GUI application that actually DOES something. Somehow I figured he would do that...
Ray Cassick wrote: Ok, now make a Windows GUI application that actually DOES something. Sorry... I don't make GUI applications - I am in server-side development ;P :beer:
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Ray Cassick wrote: I am willing to bet you that an average C++ program would contain way more characters than the average VB application. Hmmmm. Dim a as Integer a = 0 vs int a = 0; :beer:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: Dim a as Integer a = 0 If you leave out option explicit, in VB, you can just do: a = 0 ;-)
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: Dim a as Integer a = 0 If you leave out option explicit, in VB, you can just do: a = 0 ;-)
Glenn Dawson wrote: If you leave out option explicit, in VB :eek: I hope you are joking. This is a recipe for the unmaintainable code :beer:
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VB is neither smart nor stupid, but VB programmers tend to be errrr... less qualified than C++ programmers, and that's why VB code seems to be much worse than C++ code ;P :beer:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: but VB programmers tend to be errrr... less qualified than C++ programmers MAYBE this is because up until about a year ago you could not even learn VB in a school! Not that I am saying that you have to go to school to be come a good developer, but it just simply shows the bias of the industry. There is still an attitude that 'programming has to look hard' or you will not be secure in your job. I think the folks that lash out at VB programmers are simply frustrated because they took years to learn how to do something that others are now able to pick up in less time. Is there bad VB code out there? YES! I will be the first to admit it. Is there bad (or worse) C++ code out there. YES! (be honest now) Are there bad VB developers out there? YES. Are there bad C++ developers out there? YES. Will VB developers admit that the language had issues over the years.. YES. Will a C++ developer admit the same? I doubt it. Will a VB developer admit that there are things that the language might not do as well as others? YES. Will a C++ developer eevr admit that? NOPE, not that I have seen. C++ is the bomb... you can do anything in C++.... yeah, and a 300 pound fat chick CAN wear spandex too, but that does not mean that she SHOULD. Do I use C++? Yes I do. I have to write test code al the time for hardware that does not have as VB interface to it. Do I like it? I can see where the advantages are (for now) over a language like VB6 (no large runtime needed) but like it? No. C++ makes me spend way too much time on the itsy-bitsy details and not enough time on solving the problem I need to solve. Problems themselves have enough small details without having to worry about where the ';' goes and do I need to use '{'... Look at how long C and C++ have been around to mature and grow. Sure, VB 1 was eally not great, but they are getting better as the years go on, and all you C++ programmers better watch out. The C++ guys at MS are getting older... Give it a few years as the managed code starts to creep more and more into the core of the OS and pretty soon there will be no advantge to C++.
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Glenn Dawson wrote: If you leave out option explicit, in VB :eek: I hope you are joking. This is a recipe for the unmaintainable code :beer:
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: This is a recipe for the unmaintainable code At last! One thing we do agree on....:omg:
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
VB is utterly pathetic and stupid. Without Microsoft behind it, no-one would ever have used it, but because Microsoft ARE behind IT, people put up with the being utterly useless for long enough that now it is vaguely useful for people not smart enough to learn C++. Edited for the sake of the anally retentive. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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VB is utterly pathetic and stupid. Without Microsoft behind it, no-one would ever have used it, but because Microsoft ARE behind IT, people put up with the being utterly useless for long enough that now it is vaguely useful for people not smart enough to learn C++. Edited for the sake of the anally retentive. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: but because M$ ARE behind General rule #1.. never take anything seriously from a person that uses 'M$' ;P
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
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Glenn Dawson wrote: If you leave out option explicit, in VB :eek: I hope you are joking. This is a recipe for the unmaintainable code :beer:
I was joking. However, there are probably quite a few VB programmers that wouldn't think twice about using undeclared variables.
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lauren wrote: *wakes up screaming* ...wakes up screeming because she suddenly realizes that she realy WANTS to learn VB but she is afraid that she will be looked down on by her elitist freinds.
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VB is utterly pathetic and stupid. Without Microsoft behind it, no-one would ever have used it, but because Microsoft ARE behind IT, people put up with the being utterly useless for long enough that now it is vaguely useful for people not smart enough to learn C++. Edited for the sake of the anally retentive. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
You start to sound like John Simmons :suss: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Christian Graus wrote: but because M$ ARE behind General rule #1.. never take anything seriously from a person that uses 'M$' ;P
I'll second that ;) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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It's all a matter of opinion. C++ guys tend to think VB sucks but the numbers don't lie: there's way more VB developers than C++ ones. Linux guys tend to think Windows sucks but the number don't lie: there's way more Windows users than Linux ones. My opinion? VB's verbose syntax sucks compared to C++'s curly-brace one. But using it, along with the development environment, allow just about anyone to slap together relatively simple components and applications quickly. Regards, Alvaro Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
Alvaro Mendez wrote: C++ guys tend to think VB sucks but the numbers don't lie: there's way more VB developers than C++ ones. So are you implying that because there are more VB developers, VB must be good? Let's try a something analagous to your comment: Smart people tend to think stupid people suck but the numbers don't lie: there's way more stupid people than smart people. :)
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: but VB programmers tend to be errrr... less qualified than C++ programmers MAYBE this is because up until about a year ago you could not even learn VB in a school! Not that I am saying that you have to go to school to be come a good developer, but it just simply shows the bias of the industry. There is still an attitude that 'programming has to look hard' or you will not be secure in your job. I think the folks that lash out at VB programmers are simply frustrated because they took years to learn how to do something that others are now able to pick up in less time. Is there bad VB code out there? YES! I will be the first to admit it. Is there bad (or worse) C++ code out there. YES! (be honest now) Are there bad VB developers out there? YES. Are there bad C++ developers out there? YES. Will VB developers admit that the language had issues over the years.. YES. Will a C++ developer admit the same? I doubt it. Will a VB developer admit that there are things that the language might not do as well as others? YES. Will a C++ developer eevr admit that? NOPE, not that I have seen. C++ is the bomb... you can do anything in C++.... yeah, and a 300 pound fat chick CAN wear spandex too, but that does not mean that she SHOULD. Do I use C++? Yes I do. I have to write test code al the time for hardware that does not have as VB interface to it. Do I like it? I can see where the advantages are (for now) over a language like VB6 (no large runtime needed) but like it? No. C++ makes me spend way too much time on the itsy-bitsy details and not enough time on solving the problem I need to solve. Problems themselves have enough small details without having to worry about where the ';' goes and do I need to use '{'... Look at how long C and C++ have been around to mature and grow. Sure, VB 1 was eally not great, but they are getting better as the years go on, and all you C++ programmers better watch out. The C++ guys at MS are getting older... Give it a few years as the managed code starts to creep more and more into the core of the OS and pretty soon there will be no advantge to C++.
Ray Cassick wrote: I think the folks that lash out at VB programmers are simply frustrated because they took years to learn how to do something that others are now able to pick up in less time. Not true. Maybe I have used years to learn C++ and the Win32 API, but you can use VB for the rest of your life, and never be able to do the same things as you can in C++. Ray Cassick wrote: Will a C++ developer eevr admit that? NOPE, not that I have seen. C++ is the bomb... you can do anything in C++.... yeah, and a 300 pound fat chick CAN wear spandex too, but that does not mean that she SHOULD. Hehehe, actually I use C# for testing, when I develop COM Objects, because it takes too much work to use COM from C++. So C++ developers also use other languages. Ray Cassick wrote: C++ makes me spend way too much time on the itsy-bitsy details and not enough time on solving the problem I need to solve. Problems themselves have enough small details without having to worry about where the ';' goes and do I need to use '{'... Not true, if you have to worry about where to put "{" and ";" you cannot have been programming much C++. I never think about that stuff. You sound like a diehard VB-guy, that sometimes is forced to do some C++, and hates it bacause it's a bit harder than your beloved VB. Ray Cassick wrote: Give it a few years as the managed code starts to creep more and more into the core of the OS and pretty soon there will be no advantge to C++. LOL, even in .NET C++ is way more powerfull than VB ;P - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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LOL :laugh: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
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lauren wrote: *wakes up screaming* ...wakes up screeming because she suddenly realizes that she realy WANTS to learn VB but she is afraid that she will be looked down on by her elitist freinds.