Am I biased, or is VB stupid?
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
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Glenn Dawson wrote: If you leave out option explicit, in VB :eek: I hope you are joking. This is a recipe for the unmaintainable code :beer:
I was joking. However, there are probably quite a few VB programmers that wouldn't think twice about using undeclared variables.
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lauren wrote: *wakes up screaming* ...wakes up screeming because she suddenly realizes that she realy WANTS to learn VB but she is afraid that she will be looked down on by her elitist freinds.
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VB is utterly pathetic and stupid. Without Microsoft behind it, no-one would ever have used it, but because Microsoft ARE behind IT, people put up with the being utterly useless for long enough that now it is vaguely useful for people not smart enough to learn C++. Edited for the sake of the anally retentive. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
You start to sound like John Simmons :suss: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Christian Graus wrote: but because M$ ARE behind General rule #1.. never take anything seriously from a person that uses 'M$' ;P
I'll second that ;) - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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It's all a matter of opinion. C++ guys tend to think VB sucks but the numbers don't lie: there's way more VB developers than C++ ones. Linux guys tend to think Windows sucks but the number don't lie: there's way more Windows users than Linux ones. My opinion? VB's verbose syntax sucks compared to C++'s curly-brace one. But using it, along with the development environment, allow just about anyone to slap together relatively simple components and applications quickly. Regards, Alvaro Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
Alvaro Mendez wrote: C++ guys tend to think VB sucks but the numbers don't lie: there's way more VB developers than C++ ones. So are you implying that because there are more VB developers, VB must be good? Let's try a something analagous to your comment: Smart people tend to think stupid people suck but the numbers don't lie: there's way more stupid people than smart people. :)
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote: but VB programmers tend to be errrr... less qualified than C++ programmers MAYBE this is because up until about a year ago you could not even learn VB in a school! Not that I am saying that you have to go to school to be come a good developer, but it just simply shows the bias of the industry. There is still an attitude that 'programming has to look hard' or you will not be secure in your job. I think the folks that lash out at VB programmers are simply frustrated because they took years to learn how to do something that others are now able to pick up in less time. Is there bad VB code out there? YES! I will be the first to admit it. Is there bad (or worse) C++ code out there. YES! (be honest now) Are there bad VB developers out there? YES. Are there bad C++ developers out there? YES. Will VB developers admit that the language had issues over the years.. YES. Will a C++ developer admit the same? I doubt it. Will a VB developer admit that there are things that the language might not do as well as others? YES. Will a C++ developer eevr admit that? NOPE, not that I have seen. C++ is the bomb... you can do anything in C++.... yeah, and a 300 pound fat chick CAN wear spandex too, but that does not mean that she SHOULD. Do I use C++? Yes I do. I have to write test code al the time for hardware that does not have as VB interface to it. Do I like it? I can see where the advantages are (for now) over a language like VB6 (no large runtime needed) but like it? No. C++ makes me spend way too much time on the itsy-bitsy details and not enough time on solving the problem I need to solve. Problems themselves have enough small details without having to worry about where the ';' goes and do I need to use '{'... Look at how long C and C++ have been around to mature and grow. Sure, VB 1 was eally not great, but they are getting better as the years go on, and all you C++ programmers better watch out. The C++ guys at MS are getting older... Give it a few years as the managed code starts to creep more and more into the core of the OS and pretty soon there will be no advantge to C++.
Ray Cassick wrote: I think the folks that lash out at VB programmers are simply frustrated because they took years to learn how to do something that others are now able to pick up in less time. Not true. Maybe I have used years to learn C++ and the Win32 API, but you can use VB for the rest of your life, and never be able to do the same things as you can in C++. Ray Cassick wrote: Will a C++ developer eevr admit that? NOPE, not that I have seen. C++ is the bomb... you can do anything in C++.... yeah, and a 300 pound fat chick CAN wear spandex too, but that does not mean that she SHOULD. Hehehe, actually I use C# for testing, when I develop COM Objects, because it takes too much work to use COM from C++. So C++ developers also use other languages. Ray Cassick wrote: C++ makes me spend way too much time on the itsy-bitsy details and not enough time on solving the problem I need to solve. Problems themselves have enough small details without having to worry about where the ';' goes and do I need to use '{'... Not true, if you have to worry about where to put "{" and ";" you cannot have been programming much C++. I never think about that stuff. You sound like a diehard VB-guy, that sometimes is forced to do some C++, and hates it bacause it's a bit harder than your beloved VB. Ray Cassick wrote: Give it a few years as the managed code starts to creep more and more into the core of the OS and pretty soon there will be no advantge to C++. LOL, even in .NET C++ is way more powerfull than VB ;P - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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LOL :laugh: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
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lauren wrote: *wakes up screaming* ...wakes up screeming because she suddenly realizes that she realy WANTS to learn VB but she is afraid that she will be looked down on by her elitist freinds.
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ROTFLMAO!!!!! It's only a dream, Lauren! It's alright, have a sip of this nice, warm tequila and go back to sleep... Quiet now, or you'll wake the monsters under the bed. Night, night... Word of the day: Rotundacrat
Extra Credit will be awarded for: Quasimobo... -
Christian Graus wrote: but because M$ ARE behind General rule #1.. never take anything seriously from a person that uses 'M$' ;P
*sigh* It's just shorthand. Feel free to ignore anything else I say for a reason as mundane as my using a common abbreviation. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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You start to sound like John Simmons :suss: - Anders Money talks, but all mine ever says is "Goodbye!"
He is my hero. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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Alvaro Mendez wrote: but the numbers don't lie: Of course, by that logic: there are 1.2 billion people in communist China. There are 300 million in the democratic United States. Numbers don't lie. :-D I guess whether something "sucks" or not is all relative... if you just want to slap together a GUI, and you don't care about maintenance, then VB is fine. If you ever want a prayer of maintaining your code in the future, or want to do something that can't be done by creating a pretty dialog with an editor, then you'll want something more potent. "Time spent with cats is never wasted." - Colette
Navin wrote: there are 1.2 billion people in communist China. There are 300 million in the democratic United States So communism and eating rice is the world's preference ? Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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He is my hero. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
Christian Graus wrote: He is my hero. Mine also. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
Have you ever used Pascal, Delphi or Modula? That's not a rhetoric or facetious question, nor am I implying either of these languages are 'bad'. What I'm alluding to is that some of the verbosity of VB is also in Pascal/Modula/Delphi. These languages aren't usually lumped in with VB in terms of 'poorness', yet Delphi is verbose and even an idiot can use it to slap together an application (much like VB) VB can be fun. It's like driving a comfortable automatic after spending years driving a manual sports car. You can cruise along with the windows down and never have to worry about changing gears, and everything (usually) just works. It's horses for courses, but don't write it off just yet. cheers, Chris Maunder
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Ok, now make a Windows GUI application that actually DOES something. Somehow I figured he would do that...
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Please excuse my ignorant and intolerant attitude... But doesn't VB stink? As a primarily C++ programmer, which is obviously a superior language, it is occasionally necessary to examine VB code. Recently this became a disturbing issue because, it seems, VB is stupid. I never bothered to learn it, so am I biased or is VB stupid? :) Adam
Adam, I think you are being a bit ignorant here. There is a distinction between VB form painters and VB programmers. Form painters are the guys who give VB a bad name by writing crappy code, while programmers are the guys who do the cool stuff ( and who sometimes curse VB for not being able to do all they want to ). I feel that there is a place for VB in RAD. Although I am currently moving over to C# ( which I find easy because I have a bit of a C++ background ), it may be a while before I finally uninstall my trusted old VB. Johan Lombaard Development Manager Afrigis http://www.afrigis.co.za
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Marc Clifton wrote: worse, there seem to be more jobs in VB than in C++!!! But more doesn't necessarily mean better. I am willing to bet that most C++ programming jobs have better pay rates than VB programming jobs. "Time spent with cats is never wasted." - Colette
Oddly enough, that wasn't my experience. The agency that I worked through didn't distinguish between VB and C++ as far as rates went, and most of their clients wanted VB. I was paid $85/hr to help with some VB code for an HMO. Well, medical industry pays higher, but still... I hated it. It was a three tier database project, and the client and middle tiers were done in VB, and there was so much redundancy. That's not the fault of VB, but bad design. But it does go to show that a die hard C++ programmer can write VB code given just a couple examples and a day looking at the documentation (plus already having MFC experience). Marc
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Have you ever used Pascal, Delphi or Modula? That's not a rhetoric or facetious question, nor am I implying either of these languages are 'bad'. What I'm alluding to is that some of the verbosity of VB is also in Pascal/Modula/Delphi. These languages aren't usually lumped in with VB in terms of 'poorness', yet Delphi is verbose and even an idiot can use it to slap together an application (much like VB) VB can be fun. It's like driving a comfortable automatic after spending years driving a manual sports car. You can cruise along with the windows down and never have to worry about changing gears, and everything (usually) just works. It's horses for courses, but don't write it off just yet. cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: VB can be fun. It's like driving a comfortable automatic after spending years driving a manual sports car. You can cruise along with the windows down and never have to worry about changing gears With square wheels ;P? -- Andrew.