C++ Anyone?
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C# generics are plain anaemic compares to C++ templates. It's part of the overall design philosophy to make C# easy to use rather than powerful if there's ever a choice between the two. That's serious, I was told that by the C# team.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Is true. C++ templates are pretty simple IF you consider the use cases possible with C# generics. Go beyond that (with templates) and you'd better now what you're doing! But as most developers use, rather than write templates, it's a moot point really.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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WPF, in my opinion, it is for junk software. That crap that comes with store bought computers and add-on hardware is super-bloated junk that tries to compete with all the other software for the users attention by using big round flashing buttons and giant windows with nothing of real substance in them. I want to write real code that isn't some marketing scam from MS that is going to become obsolete in a year or two and force everyone to learn another three letter acronym and buy a whole new bookshelf full of books.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
WPF, in my opinion, it is for junk software
WPF is a UI framework, nothing more. It has a number of features that give it great appeal, once you've learned how to use it.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
That crap that comes with store bought computers and add-on hardware is super-bloated junk that tries to compete with all the other software for the users attention by using big round flashing buttons and giant windows with nothing of real substance in them.
The irony in that statement is that the people who develop crapware like that have been doing it since the dawn of personal computing. The only thing that changes is their methodology. WPF certainly isn't the cause.
Software Zen:
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Is true. C++ templates are pretty simple IF you consider the use cases possible with C# generics. Go beyond that (with templates) and you'd better now what you're doing! But as most developers use, rather than write templates, it's a moot point really.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
Frankly, I've always thought that templates could be overused and abused just as badly as the preprocessor. I've seen heavily-templated code that was close to unreadable because the author was so entranced with doing everything via templates.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
I'm looking into getting back into software development. I think this is the perfect opportunity to consider abandoning MS/.net and get on the solid platform that C++ has to offer. Are there any C++ programmers out there that program in C++ because they like it more than .net?
My current project, The Big New Thing™ is actually a mix. The front end application is C#/WPF, and the back end services are C++/MFC. Previous products were pure C++/MFC. The front end UI was vastly more involved to program than the new one has been. As always, pick the appropriate tool for the job.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Frankly, I've always thought that templates could be overused and abused just as badly as the preprocessor. I've seen heavily-templated code that was close to unreadable because the author was so entranced with doing everything via templates.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Frankly, I've always thought that templates could be overused and abused just as badly as the preprocessor
Course they can. Anything can. OO, inheritance - they could be substituted for 'templates' in that sentence. But there's a difference between library code, which has a desire to be maximally reusable, and application code, which doesn't have that requirement. I'm quite happy to use libraries like Boost, which use templates like they were going out of fashion, but write that code? Na, not so much (although I have done at times when I needed to).
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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If you want to do that, you'd do better to learn objective C and program for the Mac. I can't imagine how C++ is competitive in the Windows world outside of niche markets. Why would something that takes longer to work with, make you competitive. ( FWIW, I love C++, but the reality is, things like WPF are the future for Windows )
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I can't imagine how C++ is competitive in the Windows world outside of niche markets
There are TONS of software out there written in C++. Software that is still being extended. Hardly "niche" markets.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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You might spell it with one 's'. It's the Afrikaans plural for a poes. The translation is not KSS, but I'm sure any young Afrikaans girls that might read this can hold their own.
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Frankly, I've always thought that templates could be overused and abused just as badly as the preprocessor
Course they can. Anything can. OO, inheritance - they could be substituted for 'templates' in that sentence. But there's a difference between library code, which has a desire to be maximally reusable, and application code, which doesn't have that requirement. I'm quite happy to use libraries like Boost, which use templates like they were going out of fashion, but write that code? Na, not so much (although I have done at times when I needed to).
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
I've occasionally written template code, and you're right. I believe most of the time I've used it in general-purpose code rather than 'application' code. I also agree with your estimation of the Boost libraries. I've used Boost.RegEx in one project. Those developers are the intravenous heroin addicts of the programming world.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Christian Graus wrote:
I can't imagine how C++ is competitive in the Windows world outside of niche markets
There are TONS of software out there written in C++. Software that is still being extended. Hardly "niche" markets.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Same thing's true of FORTRAN, but it is a niche market.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read
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Not sure what KSS is (being of an age when TLAs tend to confuse me)! I'll ask my Afrikaaner daughter-in-law about poes, unless it's a really obscene word. :^)
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read
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Not sure what KSS is (being of an age when TLAs tend to confuse me)! I'll ask my Afrikaaner daughter-in-law about poes, unless it's a really obscene word. :^)
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Christian Graus wrote:
I can't imagine how C++ is competitive in the Windows world outside of niche markets
There are TONS of software out there written in C++. Software that is still being extended. Hardly "niche" markets.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I'm looking into getting back into software development. I think this is the perfect opportunity to consider abandoning MS/.net and get on the solid platform that C++ has to offer. Are there any C++ programmers out there that program in C++ because they like it more than .net?
I love C++ and recently started using the Qt framework - you can compile your apps for Windows, Linux and the Mac (plus some other platforms) and the framework is superb. There is even a free IDE called Qt Creator that I cannot recommend highly enough. Download Qt and give it a spin - you won't regret it. http://qt.nokia.com/[^] http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/developer-tools[^] Another excellent Windows framework is WTL - it's completely template based and is built on top of ATL. It's close to the metal - think of it as a layer above from a pure Win32 app. The documentation is lacking and the learning curve is steep, so if you're starting from scratch I personally think that Qt would your best bet.
modified on Sunday, October 4, 2009 2:05 PM
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Why are people down-voting CSS on this post? You might think he's a poes on the SoapBox, but a totally legitimate developer question should not attract down-votes. You people can often be such small minded poesses. (Sorry if I didn't spell that right)
I agree - it was a perfectly reasonable question and down-voting it just because of the posters history is just petty.
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If you want to do that, you'd do better to learn objective C and program for the Mac. I can't imagine how C++ is competitive in the Windows world outside of niche markets. Why would something that takes longer to work with, make you competitive. ( FWIW, I love C++, but the reality is, things like WPF are the future for Windows )
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Niche markets? You're joking right? I'll bet you my house than more of the apps I have installed on my home PC are written in C or C++ than they are .NET. :) Don't believe me? How about the following for starters (I have icons for them all on my home desktop): Google Chrome iTunes uTorrent Spotify Picasa Google Earth OpenOffice VLC Media Player Adobe Reader Notepad++ IrfanView WinAVI Easy CD-DA These are all niche apps right? I still like using C++ simply because I have much more control over dependencies. FWIW I write a combination of desktop and server apps that are installed on tens of thousands (perhaps more) of PCs worldwide and I'll tell you now that if I had to insist on a certain release of .NET to make this possible it would be highly unpopular (a deal-breaker in some cases - there are a lot of old PC's out there.) Niche? Sorry but that's just ridiculous.
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I'm looking into getting back into software development. I think this is the perfect opportunity to consider abandoning MS/.net and get on the solid platform that C++ has to offer. Are there any C++ programmers out there that program in C++ because they like it more than .net?
Yup. I'm one such person. The syntax of Managed C++ and C++/CLR are both a mess, and like C# itself, are initially temptingly enough to C++ to make you think. "Yes this is good". But, they're annoyingly different enough, plus the screwy syntax of the .net C++ variants screws up a lot of existing tools. C# I can imagine is good for prototyping ideas, but I wouldn't want to use it full time. To me it feels I've lost control of things - plus the countless versions and huge run times are a serious pain for distributing.... Mike
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I love C++ and recently started using the Qt framework - you can compile your apps for Windows, Linux and the Mac (plus some other platforms) and the framework is superb. There is even a free IDE called Qt Creator that I cannot recommend highly enough. Download Qt and give it a spin - you won't regret it. http://qt.nokia.com/[^] http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools/developer-tools[^] Another excellent Windows framework is WTL - it's completely template based and is built on top of ATL. It's close to the metal - think of it as a layer above from a pure Win32 app. The documentation is lacking and the learning curve is steep, so if you're starting from scratch I personally think that Qt would your best bet.
modified on Sunday, October 4, 2009 2:05 PM
I wish you'd write more often...
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?