This got me thinking
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harold aptroot wrote:
All laws that "apply" to the internet are inherently unenforceable
Nope. The internet reaches its public trough service providers, they are domestic and need to obey the national laws. So they are enforceable, and sometimes it is pretty easy. Look at the way DNS forgets about some sites in e.g. China. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Who says they can't be enforced?
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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The internet backbone servicing your country is operated by some local companies or organizations; the laws apply to them too, so they can be made to implement black lists. Examples of black lists are plenty. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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The internet backbone servicing your country is operated by some local companies or organizations; the laws apply to them too, so they can be made to implement black lists. Examples of black lists are plenty. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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You appear to be suffering from the misunderstanding of what happens in the creation of law in Britain. Educate yourself. Start here House of Lords[^]. Then ask your University's library for their catalog of books and articles on this subject, your will be surprised on what you can find out.
Are you referring to the comment I made about most politicians having never used a computer? This applies to people in the House of Lords in particular. I'm sorry if it was unclear. Badly worded. As regards to getting a book, I bought this[^] one which arrived this morning. I was reading it earlier which got me thinking, hence the original post.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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Henry Minute wrote:
have no experience of rape
Not from the receiving end anyway... :~
Yes, I think we've all been F***ed by a politician of some sort, at some time. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Who says they can't be enforced?
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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fly904 wrote:
Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it?
They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote. Besides, this is not specific to technology. Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
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Computafreak wrote:
Never
That's interesting. Or are you just referring to Torrents? What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do? I think they should be caught and punished. The question is how do we enforce it to catch them. The person who works out a way how will be a very rich man/woman. Are you also taking into account businesses who trade legitimately and are losing out due to illegal distribution of their product? With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good :p
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do?
If such individuals can be identified then they will be prosecuted. They would have contravened a number of UK laws including the Computer Misuse Act and the Data Protection Act.
fly904 wrote:
With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good
Yep, as long as you are prepared to see your intellectual property also being compromised. You are spending time and money at university learning an important craft. When you graduate your amassed knowledge will be used to assist to create computer solutions that will become your livelihood. Hackers, crackers, and their means of distribution will cost you and your company (employer) money and perhaps even your job. So if you don't want your future compromised, then don't compromise (or support this compromise) somebody else's.
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Sure, nothing is complete, traffic violations and murders continue to occur; and everything is a moving target, black markets, fraud, they all evolve, that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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Sure, nothing is complete, traffic violations and murders continue to occur; and everything is a moving target, black markets, fraud, they all evolve, that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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fly904 wrote:
What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do?
If such individuals can be identified then they will be prosecuted. They would have contravened a number of UK laws including the Computer Misuse Act and the Data Protection Act.
fly904 wrote:
With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good
Yep, as long as you are prepared to see your intellectual property also being compromised. You are spending time and money at university learning an important craft. When you graduate your amassed knowledge will be used to assist to create computer solutions that will become your livelihood. Hackers, crackers, and their means of distribution will cost you and your company (employer) money and perhaps even your job. So if you don't want your future compromised, then don't compromise (or support this compromise) somebody else's.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
So if you don't want your future compromised, then don't compromise (or support this compromise) somebody else's.
I agree. There is a plus side for it though, one of my lecturers was telling me earlier that one company leaked previous releases over these systems to actually get there product out there and promote it. I can't remember the name of the company but for a single license key it is a couple of grand. But then again, he did say it was a rumor which he read off a blog.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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Sure, nothing is complete, traffic violations and murders continue to occur; and everything is a moving target, black markets, fraud, they all evolve, that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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imo, more effort should be made to create a system where it doesn't make sense to break the laws than trying to enforce them
I know no such system; some people just have a different logic, there isn't much one can do about that. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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Are you referring to the comment I made about most politicians having never used a computer? This applies to people in the House of Lords in particular. I'm sorry if it was unclear. Badly worded. As regards to getting a book, I bought this[^] one which arrived this morning. I was reading it earlier which got me thinking, hence the original post.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
Yes there is more than one book you should read. If you really want to know the day-by-day activities of what happens in Parliament, then visit here http://www.parliament.uk/[^] and look for "Hansard" which is a record of activities in the chambers and elsewhere within the Palace of Westminster. It does you a disservice to presume that our Parliamentarians in either the Commons or Lords are technology illiterate.
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Luc Pattyn wrote:
that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them
Oh well, I'm not saying that :) Just that they won't succeed if they try..
success isn't black-and-white, you'd have to balance efforts and results. As always. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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That's a good point, although what you're saying is that we vote for people to vote for what non-elected people think is best. But that is a bit off topic.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
They are experts in bullsh*t, that's about it. I focused on technology in particular as it is something applicable to all of us here, rather than being a niche subject for The Back Room or Soapbox 1.0.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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I know no such system; some people just have a different logic, there isn't much one can do about that. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
For the most part you are right. But, those kind of systems do exist...they just don't exist on a large scale. But we haven't spend trillions of dollars trying to build up those systems like we have our justice system either so it makes sense that we haven't figured out howto make them work on a large scale.
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When was the last time someone who wrote and distributed viruses prosecuted?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
Viruses distribute themselves. They are not people. They can't be prosecuted. However, the people who created those viruses can be. Here is one example: Melissa Virus Creator Jailed It may be difficult to find the perps, and maybe only some of them may be found, but that doesn't mean we should stop trying. Take prostitution for example. We're not going to find every hooker or client (not sure if they have a name), but they have found ways to get some of them. Cops pretend to be hookers or clients in order to catch them both in the act. If even some of them can be caught, an example can be set for others. Crimes related to the internet may be more difficult to enforce, but that just means enforcement has to get smarter. I was actually caught violating the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) downloading a torrent of copyrighted material. Turns out the seeder was the copyright holder (they were recording IP addresses of people who downloaded the material). It can be done, it just takes some work.
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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fly904 wrote:
That's a good point
and
fly904 wrote:
They are experts in bullsh*t, that's about it.
No. Neither is correct as I refute below.
fly904 wrote:
They are experts in bullsh*t, that's about it.
Meant to be a joke, oh well. "They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote." That's what I thought was a good point. I personally believe that the entire parliament should be reformed. Actual "experts" should elected to head each major section such as health, education etc. and the politicians work for them. But that is waayyyyyyy off topic.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.