This got me thinking
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I think that's simplifying the issue a little to much. Rape is an age old crime, dating back to the times of...well... an erection. Technology is new, politicians know less and less about it especially as it gets more complex. It's not something handed down, it evolves day to day.
Check out the CodeProject forum Guidelines[^] The original soapbox 1.0 is back![^]
Technology is older than you make out. Not computer technology, just technology has been around since before I was born, and I've been around for some time. Every new technology that comes along, the proponents and practitioners of that technology always claim it to be special and that law makers cannot possibly understand it and yet somehow they always seem to. Bletchley Park, Moon-shots (even if you don't believe in the landings), I could go on. These people who know nothing about technologies, somehow seem to muddle along, getting it largely correct. Sometimes there are one or two false starts along the way but usually they get there in the end. The whole question could be turned around to say that technical people are too wrapped up in their own world to be capable of voting sensibly in a General Election because they are insufficiently aware of the 'real world'. It wouldn't be true, of course, and it would be very extreme, but so is the point of view put forward by the OP.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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I think that's simplifying the issue a little to much. Rape is an age old crime, dating back to the times of...well... an erection. Technology is new, politicians know less and less about it especially as it gets more complex. It's not something handed down, it evolves day to day.
Check out the CodeProject forum Guidelines[^] The original soapbox 1.0 is back![^]
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fly904 wrote:
I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question
Right, but they only get information from the lobby that's in favor of the legislation (and stand to make money by it and can then "donate" some of it back to the politician).
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
I don't like any unenforceable law.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Right, but they only get information from the lobby that's in favor of the legislation (and stand to make money by it and can then "donate" some of it back to the politician).
That's not good for the advancement of technology, which really hacks me off.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
You appear to be suffering from the misunderstanding of what happens in the creation of law in Britain. Educate yourself. Start here House of Lords[^]. Then ask your University's library for their catalog of books and articles on this subject, your will be surprised on what you can find out.
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Many, if not the majority (you can never be sure with MPs :) ), have no experience of rape. Are you saying that they should not be allowed to pass laws on rape?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
have no experience of rape
Not from the receiving end anyway... :~
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harold aptroot wrote:
All laws that "apply" to the internet are inherently unenforceable
Nope. The internet reaches its public trough service providers, they are domestic and need to obey the national laws. So they are enforceable, and sometimes it is pretty easy. Look at the way DNS forgets about some sites in e.g. China. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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harold aptroot wrote:
All laws that "apply" to the internet are inherently unenforceable
Nope. The internet reaches its public trough service providers, they are domestic and need to obey the national laws. So they are enforceable, and sometimes it is pretty easy. Look at the way DNS forgets about some sites in e.g. China. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Who says they can't be enforced?
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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The internet backbone servicing your country is operated by some local companies or organizations; the laws apply to them too, so they can be made to implement black lists. Examples of black lists are plenty. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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The internet backbone servicing your country is operated by some local companies or organizations; the laws apply to them too, so they can be made to implement black lists. Examples of black lists are plenty. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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You appear to be suffering from the misunderstanding of what happens in the creation of law in Britain. Educate yourself. Start here House of Lords[^]. Then ask your University's library for their catalog of books and articles on this subject, your will be surprised on what you can find out.
Are you referring to the comment I made about most politicians having never used a computer? This applies to people in the House of Lords in particular. I'm sorry if it was unclear. Badly worded. As regards to getting a book, I bought this[^] one which arrived this morning. I was reading it earlier which got me thinking, hence the original post.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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Henry Minute wrote:
have no experience of rape
Not from the receiving end anyway... :~
Yes, I think we've all been F***ed by a politician of some sort, at some time. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Who says they can't be enforced?
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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fly904 wrote:
Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it?
They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote. Besides, this is not specific to technology. Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
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Computafreak wrote:
Never
That's interesting. Or are you just referring to Torrents? What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do? I think they should be caught and punished. The question is how do we enforce it to catch them. The person who works out a way how will be a very rich man/woman. Are you also taking into account businesses who trade legitimately and are losing out due to illegal distribution of their product? With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good :p
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do?
If such individuals can be identified then they will be prosecuted. They would have contravened a number of UK laws including the Computer Misuse Act and the Data Protection Act.
fly904 wrote:
With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good
Yep, as long as you are prepared to see your intellectual property also being compromised. You are spending time and money at university learning an important craft. When you graduate your amassed knowledge will be used to assist to create computer solutions that will become your livelihood. Hackers, crackers, and their means of distribution will cost you and your company (employer) money and perhaps even your job. So if you don't want your future compromised, then don't compromise (or support this compromise) somebody else's.
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Sure, nothing is complete, traffic violations and murders continue to occur; and everything is a moving target, black markets, fraud, they all evolve, that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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Sure, nothing is complete, traffic violations and murders continue to occur; and everything is a moving target, black markets, fraud, they all evolve, that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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fly904 wrote:
What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do?
If such individuals can be identified then they will be prosecuted. They would have contravened a number of UK laws including the Computer Misuse Act and the Data Protection Act.
fly904 wrote:
With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good
Yep, as long as you are prepared to see your intellectual property also being compromised. You are spending time and money at university learning an important craft. When you graduate your amassed knowledge will be used to assist to create computer solutions that will become your livelihood. Hackers, crackers, and their means of distribution will cost you and your company (employer) money and perhaps even your job. So if you don't want your future compromised, then don't compromise (or support this compromise) somebody else's.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
So if you don't want your future compromised, then don't compromise (or support this compromise) somebody else's.
I agree. There is a plus side for it though, one of my lecturers was telling me earlier that one company leaked previous releases over these systems to actually get there product out there and promote it. I can't remember the name of the company but for a single license key it is a couple of grand. But then again, he did say it was a rumor which he read off a blog.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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Sure, nothing is complete, traffic violations and murders continue to occur; and everything is a moving target, black markets, fraud, they all evolve, that does not mean one shouldn't try and go after them. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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imo, more effort should be made to create a system where it doesn't make sense to break the laws than trying to enforce them
I know no such system; some people just have a different logic, there isn't much one can do about that. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!