This got me thinking
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Many, if not the majority (you can never be sure with MPs :) ), have no experience of rape. Are you saying that they should not be allowed to pass laws on rape?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
I think that's simplifying the issue a little to much. Rape is an age old crime, dating back to the times of...well... an erection. Technology is new, politicians know less and less about it especially as it gets more complex. It's not something handed down, it evolves day to day.
Check out the CodeProject forum Guidelines[^] The original soapbox 1.0 is back![^]
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it?
They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote. Besides, this is not specific to technology. Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
No. I don't like an person having an opinion on something they don't know anything about, and I apply the same principles to MPs; if anything, I apply it more-so, in that the people who pass the laws should know precisely what they're signing. Going after torrent sites really gets my goat up, since it exposes their complete lack of knowledge about the way parts of the Internet work.
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Never. They only serve to provide a stupid micro-manager with a six-figure salary.
OSDev :)
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fly904 wrote:
Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it?
They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote. Besides, this is not specific to technology. Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
That's a good point, although what you're saying is that we vote for people to vote for what non-elected people think is best. But that is a bit off topic.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
They are experts in bullsh*t, that's about it. I focused on technology in particular as it is something applicable to all of us here, rather than being a niche subject for The Back Room or Soapbox 1.0.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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fly904 wrote:
Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it?
They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote. Besides, this is not specific to technology. Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
They don't "make" laws - there are experts that do that for them. They just vote.
Primarily, the Lords is a reforming chamber. Yes there are private office staff. Yes, many are experts in their field of specialty. Yes there are debates. And yes they do vote. And until very recently when new chambers were made operative, it was the highest court of law in this land.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Do you think they are experts in health, traffic, economy,... anything?
Yes, many are. For example, Lord the Professor Robert Winston, he and many others are superbly and eminently qualified.
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question
Right, but they only get information from the lobby that's in favor of the legislation (and stand to make money by it and can then "donate" some of it back to the politician).
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
I don't like any unenforceable law.
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Many, if not the majority (you can never be sure with MPs :) ), have no experience of rape. Are you saying that they should not be allowed to pass laws on rape?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
It is if or not they know anything that they're making a law about (whether or not through experience is insignificant). That way, they know about rape. But sadly on the other hand, they don't know sh*t about a computer or the internet. OK, this topic is a better candidate for the SB so I can milk the political bastards to what they're worth. :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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No. I don't like an person having an opinion on something they don't know anything about, and I apply the same principles to MPs; if anything, I apply it more-so, in that the people who pass the laws should know precisely what they're signing. Going after torrent sites really gets my goat up, since it exposes their complete lack of knowledge about the way parts of the Internet work.
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Never. They only serve to provide a stupid micro-manager with a six-figure salary.
OSDev :)
Computafreak wrote:
Never
That's interesting. Or are you just referring to Torrents? What about Hackers? People who write/distribute viruses? Should they be allowed to get away with what they do? I think they should be caught and punished. The question is how do we enforce it to catch them. The person who works out a way how will be a very rich man/woman. Are you also taking into account businesses who trade legitimately and are losing out due to illegal distribution of their product? With regards to Torrents, I don't believe that film companies in particular can complain too much about losing money due to piracy. Just cut back on the actors wages, they're not that good. Smaller music companies shouldn't lose out, people should support them, if they're any good :p
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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I think that's simplifying the issue a little to much. Rape is an age old crime, dating back to the times of...well... an erection. Technology is new, politicians know less and less about it especially as it gets more complex. It's not something handed down, it evolves day to day.
Check out the CodeProject forum Guidelines[^] The original soapbox 1.0 is back![^]
Technology is older than you make out. Not computer technology, just technology has been around since before I was born, and I've been around for some time. Every new technology that comes along, the proponents and practitioners of that technology always claim it to be special and that law makers cannot possibly understand it and yet somehow they always seem to. Bletchley Park, Moon-shots (even if you don't believe in the landings), I could go on. These people who know nothing about technologies, somehow seem to muddle along, getting it largely correct. Sometimes there are one or two false starts along the way but usually they get there in the end. The whole question could be turned around to say that technical people are too wrapped up in their own world to be capable of voting sensibly in a General Election because they are insufficiently aware of the 'real world'. It wouldn't be true, of course, and it would be very extreme, but so is the point of view put forward by the OP.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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I think that's simplifying the issue a little to much. Rape is an age old crime, dating back to the times of...well... an erection. Technology is new, politicians know less and less about it especially as it gets more complex. It's not something handed down, it evolves day to day.
Check out the CodeProject forum Guidelines[^] The original soapbox 1.0 is back![^]
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fly904 wrote:
I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question
Right, but they only get information from the lobby that's in favor of the legislation (and stand to make money by it and can then "donate" some of it back to the politician).
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
I don't like any unenforceable law.
PIEBALDconsult wrote:
Right, but they only get information from the lobby that's in favor of the legislation (and stand to make money by it and can then "donate" some of it back to the politician).
That's not good for the advancement of technology, which really hacks me off.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
You appear to be suffering from the misunderstanding of what happens in the creation of law in Britain. Educate yourself. Start here House of Lords[^]. Then ask your University's library for their catalog of books and articles on this subject, your will be surprised on what you can find out.
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Many, if not the majority (you can never be sure with MPs :) ), have no experience of rape. Are you saying that they should not be allowed to pass laws on rape?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
have no experience of rape
Not from the receiving end anyway... :~
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harold aptroot wrote:
All laws that "apply" to the internet are inherently unenforceable
Nope. The internet reaches its public trough service providers, they are domestic and need to obey the national laws. So they are enforceable, and sometimes it is pretty easy. Look at the way DNS forgets about some sites in e.g. China. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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harold aptroot wrote:
All laws that "apply" to the internet are inherently unenforceable
Nope. The internet reaches its public trough service providers, they are domestic and need to obey the national laws. So they are enforceable, and sometimes it is pretty easy. Look at the way DNS forgets about some sites in e.g. China. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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Should people who know absolutely nothing about technology be allowed to make laws on it? I'm talking about laws regarding the Internet in particular. The people in question are the politicians in the Houses' of Commons and Lords, Lords in particular, or any other governing body, who don't know what the technology even does or is. There are even some politicians who have never even used a computer and have secretaries to email and read emails for them on their behalf etc. Personally, I don't believe they should even be allowed an opinion on the matter unless they are informed and familiar enough with the technology in question, which they certainly aren't. This also relates to another question which is: Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
fly904 wrote:
Should there be laws regulating the Internet if they cannot be enforced?
Who says they can't be enforced?
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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The internet backbone servicing your country is operated by some local companies or organizations; the laws apply to them too, so they can be made to implement black lists. Examples of black lists are plenty. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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The internet backbone servicing your country is operated by some local companies or organizations; the laws apply to them too, so they can be made to implement black lists. Examples of black lists are plenty. :)
Luc Pattyn
I only read code that is properly indented, and rendered in a non-proportional font; hint: use PRE tags in forum messages
Local announcement (Antwerp region): Lange Wapper? Neen!
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You appear to be suffering from the misunderstanding of what happens in the creation of law in Britain. Educate yourself. Start here House of Lords[^]. Then ask your University's library for their catalog of books and articles on this subject, your will be surprised on what you can find out.
Are you referring to the comment I made about most politicians having never used a computer? This applies to people in the House of Lords in particular. I'm sorry if it was unclear. Badly worded. As regards to getting a book, I bought this[^] one which arrived this morning. I was reading it earlier which got me thinking, hence the original post.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.