UK Drug advisor tells the truth and then loses his job.
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Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true. Because you can't OD on it. I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed. Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true.
Rather that is your opinion.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Because you can't OD on it.
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed.
So don't quote misinformation as facts.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
Safely, being a relative term, actually means that if you're lucky it won't do you any harm.
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RichardGrimmer wrote:
I hate to correct you tere, but since it's a subject close to my heart (no pun intended), there is such a thing as Estacy Toxicity, which leads to heart / organ failure. Apparently the lethal dose is around 3mg/l (IIRC).. - 20 was bound to kill
Thanks for correcting me. When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true. I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true.
I guess that's the main problem - if "The Man" is telling you it's a killer but you see all of your friend doing it with no problems, then you're likely to doubt advice...that was certainly the case with me and my wife....
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not
Generally speaking, it is - of the literally MILLIONS of pills consumed each week, the number who experience any ill effects is statistically negligible (around 70- deaths per year in the UK), but I have to say, it matters not how many other people "get away with it", when one dies close to you, it's a big deal. Please note - I'm not one of the people who thinks it should be banned, despite my wife's death and the "situation" that followed, any more than I think that rock climbing should be banned...for me the telling point was the inquest verdict - death by misadventure - i.e tried something, not expecting it to fail....also why I had charges of reckless manslaughter dropped - we weren't expecting any problems, so didn't consider it to be dangerous - in the UK I would only have been guilty of that if I considered it to be dangerous before we started....apparently....small comfort though
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not. I have no experience with it. It was usually the fat girls in college who took it. LOL.
You mean you haven't read about any reports of kids dying because of taking ecstasy? :wtf: You do read papers, don't you?
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
Again - to be pedantic, the cause of death in most cases is not toxicity of the e themselves, but other factors schas over /under hydration, allergic rections, pre-existing heart conditions etc....in fact, AFAIK, my wife is the only recorded death from out and out toxicity in the UK.
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Well, nobody dies from Marijuana, this I know is true.
Rather that is your opinion.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Because you can't OD on it.
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I was mistaken about ecstasy, I was misinformed.
So don't quote misinformation as facts.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Apparently, it can kill you, but it can also be used safely.
Safely, being a relative term, actually means that if you're lucky it won't do you any harm.
Richard MacCutchan wrote:
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
Perhaps, but you can also use a vaporizer to extract the THC without any smoke. Or you can cook it. So it is pretty safe. Regardless. The point is that government lies and uses propaganda. Professor Nutts got sacked (pun intended) for telling the truth. Two other scientists have resigned since this happened. And finally, the drug war is an abysmal failure and a joke.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
When our governments / schools give us misinformation and propaganda, it is hard to know what's true.
I guess that's the main problem - if "The Man" is telling you it's a killer but you see all of your friend doing it with no problems, then you're likely to doubt advice...that was certainly the case with me and my wife....
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I thought ecstasy was pretty safe, but maybe not
Generally speaking, it is - of the literally MILLIONS of pills consumed each week, the number who experience any ill effects is statistically negligible (around 70- deaths per year in the UK), but I have to say, it matters not how many other people "get away with it", when one dies close to you, it's a big deal. Please note - I'm not one of the people who thinks it should be banned, despite my wife's death and the "situation" that followed, any more than I think that rock climbing should be banned...for me the telling point was the inquest verdict - death by misadventure - i.e tried something, not expecting it to fail....also why I had charges of reckless manslaughter dropped - we weren't expecting any problems, so didn't consider it to be dangerous - in the UK I would only have been guilty of that if I considered it to be dangerous before we started....apparently....small comfort though
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
Dude, did your wife die from ecstasy? That's awful. I'm so sorry. :((
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
Perhaps, but you can also use a vaporizer to extract the THC without any smoke. Or you can cook it. So it is pretty safe. Regardless. The point is that government lies and uses propaganda. Professor Nutts got sacked (pun intended) for telling the truth. Two other scientists have resigned since this happened. And finally, the drug war is an abysmal failure and a joke.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
So it is pretty safe.
Again this is a relative term which cannot be quantified. There are many 90 year olds who have smoked all their lives who could justifiably claim that cigarettes are safe. As to your last paragraph, I would tend to agree with the sentiment.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
But you can still die from smoking it, the same as you can die from tobacco.
Perhaps, but you can also use a vaporizer to extract the THC without any smoke. Or you can cook it. So it is pretty safe. Regardless. The point is that government lies and uses propaganda. Professor Nutts got sacked (pun intended) for telling the truth. Two other scientists have resigned since this happened. And finally, the drug war is an abysmal failure and a joke.
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Actually Nutt got asked to resign not sacked, the reason was that he was campaigning on "his" agenda which conflicted with the govenment. as to his assertions, they are biased and have been discredited, he claims that he based his opinion on the results of questionaire of professionals, well he sent the questions to 100 selected (note SELECTED) healthcare professionals - of which 27 replied - this is generally regarded as being non representative it has also been alledged that of those that answered 50% were chest doctors and would therefore be likely to vote for thier speciality No? as for the claims that its safer, this has been proven to be wrong, yes more people suffer medical problem from alcohol but that is because alcohol comsumpsion if far greater that that of these drugs
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
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Actually Nutt got asked to resign not sacked, the reason was that he was campaigning on "his" agenda which conflicted with the govenment. as to his assertions, they are biased and have been discredited, he claims that he based his opinion on the results of questionaire of professionals, well he sent the questions to 100 selected (note SELECTED) healthcare professionals - of which 27 replied - this is generally regarded as being non representative it has also been alledged that of those that answered 50% were chest doctors and would therefore be likely to vote for thier speciality No? as for the claims that its safer, this has been proven to be wrong, yes more people suffer medical problem from alcohol but that is because alcohol comsumpsion if far greater that that of these drugs
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
The British government re-classified marijuana as a more dangerous drug. Clearly this was for political reasons and not based on science. Pot is one of the safest drugs around and it is not addicting. He called them out on it and got fired. "Asked to resign" is the same thing as getting sacked.
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Again - to be pedantic, the cause of death in most cases is not toxicity of the e themselves, but other factors schas over /under hydration, allergic rections, pre-existing heart conditions etc....in fact, AFAIK, my wife is the only recorded death from out and out toxicity in the UK.
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
RichardGrimmer wrote:
my wife is the only recorded death from out and out toxicity
Sorry to hear that...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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Again - to be pedantic, the cause of death in most cases is not toxicity of the e themselves, but other factors schas over /under hydration, allergic rections, pre-existing heart conditions etc....in fact, AFAIK, my wife is the only recorded death from out and out toxicity in the UK.
C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.
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The British government re-classified marijuana as a more dangerous drug. Clearly this was for political reasons and not based on science. Pot is one of the safest drugs around and it is not addicting. He called them out on it and got fired. "Asked to resign" is the same thing as getting sacked.
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they reclassified due to reports from the scientific community that it causes mental health problem IN A SIGNIFICANT portion of its users, The evidence provided was sufficient to force the govenement into an embarassing u turn (remember that it was THE SAME govenement that declassified it in the first place - against medical and popular opinion nott tried to promote his own opinions and agenda from his position something that is wholely inapproprate, he was an advisor (and of one agency that advises on these things) the govenment choose to go with conflicting advise from other agencies that had better scientific evidence than that provided by nott. the GMC have ststed that the current enhanced variants of canabis have a much higher risk of helath problems. as to its addiction, the idea of it not being addictive is actually not medically true, yes it has a low addiction rate but medically speaking the addiction rate is higher than that of alcohol (all mind state altering drugs are addictive in varying degrees)
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
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they reclassified due to reports from the scientific community that it causes mental health problem IN A SIGNIFICANT portion of its users, The evidence provided was sufficient to force the govenement into an embarassing u turn (remember that it was THE SAME govenement that declassified it in the first place - against medical and popular opinion nott tried to promote his own opinions and agenda from his position something that is wholely inapproprate, he was an advisor (and of one agency that advises on these things) the govenment choose to go with conflicting advise from other agencies that had better scientific evidence than that provided by nott. the GMC have ststed that the current enhanced variants of canabis have a much higher risk of helath problems. as to its addiction, the idea of it not being addictive is actually not medically true, yes it has a low addiction rate but medically speaking the addiction rate is higher than that of alcohol (all mind state altering drugs are addictive in varying degrees)
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
You should go get a job with the government. You are doing a great job at arguing bullshit. Pot will legal in the USA with in 20 years and eventually all over the globe. You're on the wrong side of history. Arguing with you is like telling a Christian there's god. It is pointless. I think you need to chill out. Maybe you should smoke a bowl tonight...
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You should go get a job with the government. You are doing a great job at arguing bullshit. Pot will legal in the USA with in 20 years and eventually all over the globe. You're on the wrong side of history. Arguing with you is like telling a Christian there's god. It is pointless. I think you need to chill out. Maybe you should smoke a bowl tonight...
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I think you need to chill out. Maybe you should smoke a bowl tonight...
The inevitable bit of resorting to this argument is proof enough of the harmful effects of pot to me. Never mind he makes a lot of points you don't bother to answer, never mind you've been proven wrong at least one other time in this thread on the subject, he's full of bullshit, you're right, he should go get high too. It annoys me that I've lost people I used to actually be able to have intelligent conversations with to this crap, and I tend to vent it at anyone who spews out the same 'whatever' line to attempt to end an argument. The phrase 'smoked yourself retarded' came from somewhere. Keep that in mind as you dismiss his arguments out of hand because he's arguing 'for the man'.
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You should go get a job with the government. You are doing a great job at arguing bullshit. Pot will legal in the USA with in 20 years and eventually all over the globe. You're on the wrong side of history. Arguing with you is like telling a Christian there's god. It is pointless. I think you need to chill out. Maybe you should smoke a bowl tonight...
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And you should get a job with the monster raving loony party as you have little knowledge and less intelligence. the idea that dope is harmless is pure bunk, it has been shown that it has in a large proportion of its users a negative impact on thier mental health, now maybe it hasnt effected you YET (the effects can take upto 15 years to show) does not mean that it will not effect everyone, the sideeffects of dope would prevent it accepted as a drug (yes alcohol and tobacco are also dangerous and either would be accepted if they were attempted to be legalised if they were in the same situation as dope) and argueing with you is like mmmm oh yes argueing with a pothead, maybe you should stop toking (if you can, depending on your intake you may find it harder than you think) allow it to clear your system and then you may be able to understand the arguments and make a sensible choice not one though a drug induced haze oh and by the way opium as once legal and was made a controlled drug are you proposing re-legalising that? you may want to check what arguments were used to try and prevent its criminalisation - they sound very similar to the ones your using now
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
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And you should get a job with the monster raving loony party as you have little knowledge and less intelligence. the idea that dope is harmless is pure bunk, it has been shown that it has in a large proportion of its users a negative impact on thier mental health, now maybe it hasnt effected you YET (the effects can take upto 15 years to show) does not mean that it will not effect everyone, the sideeffects of dope would prevent it accepted as a drug (yes alcohol and tobacco are also dangerous and either would be accepted if they were attempted to be legalised if they were in the same situation as dope) and argueing with you is like mmmm oh yes argueing with a pothead, maybe you should stop toking (if you can, depending on your intake you may find it harder than you think) allow it to clear your system and then you may be able to understand the arguments and make a sensible choice not one though a drug induced haze oh and by the way opium as once legal and was made a controlled drug are you proposing re-legalising that? you may want to check what arguments were used to try and prevent its criminalisation - they sound very similar to the ones your using now
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
Alex hogarth wrote:
And you should get a job with the monster raving loony party as you have little knowledge and less intelligence.
15 MILLION Americans use it. 150 MILLION Americans have tried it at least once, including the last three President's even though Clinton said he didn't inhale. In MODERATION pot is harmless. Please show me a study that shows otherwise. I will concede that if you have mental issues you should not smoke pot. No shit. But if you are normal and healthy, smoking pot in MODERATION is harmless. If you smoke dope all day long then you are always stoned so of course you are going to have issues. Yes, all drugs should be legal. I'm glad you like to throw people in jail who want to do things you don't agree with. But personally, I feel people should be free enough to do what they want as long as they are not harming anyone else. BTW, marijuana WILL become legal. You are on the wrong side of history.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
I think you need to chill out. Maybe you should smoke a bowl tonight...
The inevitable bit of resorting to this argument is proof enough of the harmful effects of pot to me. Never mind he makes a lot of points you don't bother to answer, never mind you've been proven wrong at least one other time in this thread on the subject, he's full of bullshit, you're right, he should go get high too. It annoys me that I've lost people I used to actually be able to have intelligent conversations with to this crap, and I tend to vent it at anyone who spews out the same 'whatever' line to attempt to end an argument. The phrase 'smoked yourself retarded' came from somewhere. Keep that in mind as you dismiss his arguments out of hand because he's arguing 'for the man'.
No haven't proven wrong. Because there are no studies that prove any harmful effects of pot when used in moderation. http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3260368/Re-UK-Drug-advisor-tells-the-truth-and-then-loses-.aspx
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Alex hogarth wrote:
And you should get a job with the monster raving loony party as you have little knowledge and less intelligence.
15 MILLION Americans use it. 150 MILLION Americans have tried it at least once, including the last three President's even though Clinton said he didn't inhale. In MODERATION pot is harmless. Please show me a study that shows otherwise. I will concede that if you have mental issues you should not smoke pot. No shit. But if you are normal and healthy, smoking pot in MODERATION is harmless. If you smoke dope all day long then you are always stoned so of course you are going to have issues. Yes, all drugs should be legal. I'm glad you like to throw people in jail who want to do things you don't agree with. But personally, I feel people should be free enough to do what they want as long as they are not harming anyone else. BTW, marijuana WILL become legal. You are on the wrong side of history.
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oh moderation, lol a recreational drug taken in moderation - legalise it and you head towards what alcohol is now, and marijuana is a lot worse than booze. medical investigation has shown that marijuana is actually worse than tobacco for producing cancer and think of the efforts being taken to stop smoking (do you think for a second that if smoking was illeagal they would make it legal) it has also been shown in clinical trials that either marijuana causes a significant deteriation of mental heath or agravates undetected mental heath problems if this was to be proscribed by doctors it would require carefull mointoring and health checks - and you avocate allowing anyone access. the problem with most things is that those who shouldnt are those exact people most likely to, the problems with pot are such that no self respecting govenment will consider its safe (those that have ie holland are starting to revise thier oppinions due to the eact problems highlighted) also pot is drug the brain becomes used to, so to maintain the high you need to a, smoke in moderation or b increase the intake the problem is then that the stronger strains lead to further problems and often to the use of stronger drugs. as for the legalise all drugs - well you are welcome to that world
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
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oh moderation, lol a recreational drug taken in moderation - legalise it and you head towards what alcohol is now, and marijuana is a lot worse than booze. medical investigation has shown that marijuana is actually worse than tobacco for producing cancer and think of the efforts being taken to stop smoking (do you think for a second that if smoking was illeagal they would make it legal) it has also been shown in clinical trials that either marijuana causes a significant deteriation of mental heath or agravates undetected mental heath problems if this was to be proscribed by doctors it would require carefull mointoring and health checks - and you avocate allowing anyone access. the problem with most things is that those who shouldnt are those exact people most likely to, the problems with pot are such that no self respecting govenment will consider its safe (those that have ie holland are starting to revise thier oppinions due to the eact problems highlighted) also pot is drug the brain becomes used to, so to maintain the high you need to a, smoke in moderation or b increase the intake the problem is then that the stronger strains lead to further problems and often to the use of stronger drugs. as for the legalise all drugs - well you are welcome to that world
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
Alex hogarth wrote:
legalise it and you head towards what alcohol is now, and marijuana is a lot worse than booze.
WRONG Cannabis less harmful than drinking, smoking: report
Alex hogarth wrote:
medical investigation has shown that marijuana is actually worse than tobacco for producing cancer
WRONG. Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
Alex hogarth wrote:
it has also been shown in clinical trials that either marijuana causes a significant deteriation of mental heath
WRONG. Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary You have obviously never tried it and you have your facts completely wrong. You are probably just a troll. Nobody can believe the nonsense you are posting.
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Alex hogarth wrote:
legalise it and you head towards what alcohol is now, and marijuana is a lot worse than booze.
WRONG Cannabis less harmful than drinking, smoking: report
Alex hogarth wrote:
medical investigation has shown that marijuana is actually worse than tobacco for producing cancer
WRONG. Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
Alex hogarth wrote:
it has also been shown in clinical trials that either marijuana causes a significant deteriation of mental heath
WRONG. Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary You have obviously never tried it and you have your facts completely wrong. You are probably just a troll. Nobody can believe the nonsense you are posting.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
You have obviously never tried it and you have your facts completely wrong.
You don't need to smoke dope (or anything else) to understand the facts about the damage it can do.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
You are probably just a troll.
Resorting to personal abuse again; you lose.
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
Nobody can believe the nonsense you are posting.
I, and I suspect many others, can.
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Alex hogarth wrote:
legalise it and you head towards what alcohol is now, and marijuana is a lot worse than booze.
WRONG Cannabis less harmful than drinking, smoking: report
Alex hogarth wrote:
medical investigation has shown that marijuana is actually worse than tobacco for producing cancer
WRONG. Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection
Alex hogarth wrote:
it has also been shown in clinical trials that either marijuana causes a significant deteriation of mental heath
WRONG. Fact: There is no convincing scientific evidence that marijuana causes psychological damage or mental illness in either teenagers or adults. Some marijuana users experience psychological distress following marijuana ingestion, which may include feelings of panic, anxiety, and paranoia. Such experiences can be frightening, but the effects are temporary You have obviously never tried it and you have your facts completely wrong. You are probably just a troll. Nobody can believe the nonsense you are posting.
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http://www.nida.nih.gov/researchreports/marijuana/Marijuana3.html would seem to disagree and that was just the first search result there is a lot of evidence either way but at present there seems to be more pointing to there being issues. but you are like a lot of your ilk - blind to any voice that disagrees and why would you think i havent tried it? this is another of your blind assumptions - because i disagree with your premise that its completely harmless (and the orginal one that nott was unfairly dismissed) that means that i am against its use, it just shows how biased and narrow minded you are
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.