"GUI" developers [modified]
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Sure! I think when someone is learning programing he should try to use low tech tools such as notepad and command line tools.
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
I agree. In my opinion it is imperative to have a firm understanding of the system you're developing for, as well as any other technology relevant to your solution. For example, I would find it very difficult to build an optimized web application without firm knowledge of TCP/IP and HTTP, as well as having an awareness of the different platforms and rendering contexts the app would be exposed to. //L
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Whilst in a purist world you might be right and even in a world where only the technically competent were allowed to do jobs that you know require technical competence. You are aware I take that there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser. And even worse than that, that joe public thinks these are the "real" developers because when they ask what they are working on they get told things they can actually understand.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
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I agree. In my opinion it is imperative to have a firm understanding of the system you're developing for, as well as any other technology relevant to your solution. For example, I would find it very difficult to build an optimized web application without firm knowledge of TCP/IP and HTTP, as well as having an awareness of the different platforms and rendering contexts the app would be exposed to. //L
But your forgetting that the way people are 'meant' to code now is to forget about how the layers below work just use it. And if it goes too slow, buy a faster computer with more memory. Please note: I don't agree with that, I much prefer knowing what the tech I am using is and how it works so I can write neat and tidy fast code that does the job as best it can.
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I'm just taking a wild stab at this since I've never bee asked to build that way, but it sounds to me like either the VS folders need to be added to the system path, or he needs to use the VS command prompt. Google is his friend.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
but it sounds to me like either the VS folders need to be added to the system path
That would be the solution. My point is that he didn't know how to interpret the error message from the command processor. Maybe this is so weird to me because I use the console and batch files frequently and I know most error messages by heart. Many of these kids may not even know that Windows also has a command line interface...
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Whilst in a purist world you might be right and even in a world where only the technically competent were allowed to do jobs that you know require technical competence. You are aware I take that there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser. And even worse than that, that joe public thinks these are the "real" developers because when they ask what they are working on they get told things they can actually understand.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
You are aware I take that there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser.
Ahh, these must be the "Web Developers". :rolleyes:
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
but it sounds to me like either the VS folders need to be added to the system path
That would be the solution. My point is that he didn't know how to interpret the error message from the command processor. Maybe this is so weird to me because I use the console and batch files frequently and I know most error messages by heart. Many of these kids may not even know that Windows also has a command line interface...
I did a phone interview for a job yesterday, and I got the impression that the guy has never had to do an serious work at the DOS prompt. The further away from the 80's you get, the less likely you'll find programmers that are even aware that they can use the command prompt for things.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
But your forgetting that the way people are 'meant' to code now is to forget about how the layers below work just use it. And if it goes too slow, buy a faster computer with more memory. Please note: I don't agree with that, I much prefer knowing what the tech I am using is and how it works so I can write neat and tidy fast code that does the job as best it can.
Yep - Microsoft is pushing the "ease" of programming, not the reasons programming exist.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here :-D
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Michael Schubert wrote:
but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think
I certainly hope so :omg:
Software Kinetics (requires SL3 beta) - Moving software
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pseudonym67 wrote:
You are aware I take that there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser.
Ahh, these must be the "Web Developers". :rolleyes:
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
A developer should be able to cobble together a one-click build process. That almost requires some basic command line skills.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here :-D
TheIndian wrote:
He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here
Did you explain that colleague that the problem seems to exist between the chair and the keyboard? (Java *itself* is a problem, but that's another aspect of the argument).
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
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TheIndian wrote:
He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here
Did you explain that colleague that the problem seems to exist between the chair and the keyboard? (Java *itself* is a problem, but that's another aspect of the argument).
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Did you explain
I dont dare explain him anything :-D
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I did a phone interview for a job yesterday, and I got the impression that the guy has never had to do an serious work at the DOS prompt. The further away from the 80's you get, the less likely you'll find programmers that are even aware that they can use the command prompt for things.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Yes.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Whilst in a purist world you might be right and even in a world where only the technically competent were allowed to do jobs that you know require technical competence. You are aware I take that there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser. And even worse than that, that joe public thinks these are the "real" developers because when they ask what they are working on they get told things they can actually understand.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
there are people who are called computer programmers these days that have never written anything that runs outside of a browser.
You forgot the quotes around "programmers". :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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He seems to be in the same league as one of my colleagues who type-casted String to Treenode (under JAVA), and upon receiving an exception complained that there seems to be "some" problem here :-D
Ah yes typecasting. I once worked with someone who put this in our java codebase:
String s = new Object;
Checked it in, broke the build, and then claimed complete lack of knowledge as to why things might not be compiling anymore. Sigh.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Just wanted to thank you for the fingerprints I now have all over my screen from trying to kill your profile bug. :doh:
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OK, there is this guy in the C++ forum attempting to build his project from the command line. He's been told to build the project with "devenv /rebuild" but he gets "devenv is not recognized as internal or external command" and doesn't know what that means. I know that for most users the OS is just a thin layer of shiny buttons and fancy colors but a developer should know what's happening beneath (or beyond) that, don't you think?
modified on Friday, November 13, 2009 5:30 AM
Hear hear! I've said it before and I'll say it again -- but I don't have to this time because you said it. There are certain tasks where a GUI excels and others where a command line excels -- use the right tool for the right job. On my last job I received a certain amount of ridicule because I spent so much time at the DOS prompt. I told people I was looking at the raw matrix.
