Visual Basic - I'm in Hell [modified]
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
VB.NETis really ugly compared toC#(actually is such even without comparison).VB6was dirty, true, but it did his dirty job. On the other hand thisVBis an ugly language claiming to be ne(a)t. :)If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Don't know why everybody hates "VB" so much? Our work is to make things work, and VB.NET can help do it. So what if the syntax is a bit too friendly? Every language has its flaws! VB has its own (a lot of them, I agree), but they aren't going to get resolved by these rants. If VB were that bad, Microsoft would have hit the Shift + Del button on its development long back? OK. I am ready for that 1 vote now :rolleyes:
Currently Reading: Eclipse by Stephenie Meyer Next in Queue: Breaking Dawn by Stephenie Meyer - Kirtan
It's a historical thing, but also just the way the language is constructed syntactically and symantically. Firstly, VB[ol'skool] was used by every numpty 'marketting expert' to write some kakky demo to show to clients. Then they'd expect dev to pick up and fix the shyte they'd written. VB was too lenient and allowed for really bad practices to creap in. Don't want to decalre your variables? Don't bother then. Seems sensible [in a way] to say that on it's first assignment, you'd know what type a variable was going to be. But in VB, an undeclared variable was ALWAYS a variant, with it's added type check overhead on every usage. That is one example of why people hate VB, it allowed [some would say encouraged] some very bad practices. Now I've been using VB since VB1.annabit and I've seen how it has got better. But I now preffer java or C# because they were designed bottom up rather than adding in little chaunks all over the place without [apparent] thought.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
Just remember to remove the ";" key from your keyboard.. Will save you a lot of syntax errors :)
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Win2008 Server without FrontPage Extensions, really?
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
VB sucks. I've taken VB work and hated every moment. It has a couple of things I like, but none are worth the pain of having to suffer VB syntax, which is obviously designed for the benefit of stupid people.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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It's a historical thing, but also just the way the language is constructed syntactically and symantically. Firstly, VB[ol'skool] was used by every numpty 'marketting expert' to write some kakky demo to show to clients. Then they'd expect dev to pick up and fix the shyte they'd written. VB was too lenient and allowed for really bad practices to creap in. Don't want to decalre your variables? Don't bother then. Seems sensible [in a way] to say that on it's first assignment, you'd know what type a variable was going to be. But in VB, an undeclared variable was ALWAYS a variant, with it's added type check overhead on every usage. That is one example of why people hate VB, it allowed [some would say encouraged] some very bad practices. Now I've been using VB since VB1.annabit and I've seen how it has got better. But I now preffer java or C# because they were designed bottom up rather than adding in little chaunks all over the place without [apparent] thought.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
Yep. Agreed. I've worked with VB6. It's true that it encourages bad pratices. But, if you consider youselves to be a good/great programmer, you are bound to avoid them (like the use of variants X|). IF used properly, VB.NET code will generate the same MSIL that its C# counterpart will generate. In short, this is a never ending discussion. If you consider youself a programmer, you should not be bound to one single language. EDIT: I too am a C# guy, but I have learned early on NOT to hate any technology (I know, some of you'll say VB is not technology), however old school it is; and that helps, a lot :-D EDIT2: I see a lot of VB haters over here, so I'll stop now, before my existence gets endangered.
Currently Reading: Eclipse by Stephenie Meyer Next in Queue: Breaking Dawn by Stephenie Meyer - Kirtan
modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:12 AM
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It's even worse - I took a 10k/year pay cut. Some of you may remember my earlier claim that people think VB programmers are cheaper because VB is "easier"... They're cheaper because people with even a spark of ego and self respect consider a VB job as something to pay their tuition at the McDonald's School of Burger Flipping.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
Where's amnesty international? Forcing people to do VB is an abuse of economic power and obviously against human rights.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB
Once upon a long, long time there were many little BASIC languages. They wanted to make programming as easy as talking, so they used fragments of english words as commands. The fragments were hardly readable and didn't really remind of the words they were taken from, but anyway the code looked a little bit like bad English ... instead of good code.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Specifying the type AFTER the variable name
Come on, that's just like Pascal. ;) You're not alone!
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot"
Don't forget to use
Somethingwhere something is notNothing.John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file?
Because in ancient times the hard drives were slower. When the page stopped scrolling, the computer needed a little time to read the next lines of code. The line means "Don't wait, there are no further lines".
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job...
You will lose your sanity, your good mood, your sleep and health - but you'll always keep your status. :thumbsup: By the way, VB coders are cheap just as road sweepers and trash collectors are.
This statement is false.
modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:19 AM
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.
I seem to recall a lot of C++ folks dissing C# when it was new. I think they actually compared it to VB due to the warm and fuzzy front end and lack of pointers. Times have certainly changed...
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job...
Some of us in the Platinum members' lounge were discussing this, John. Will let you know what we decide on this :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com link -
It's even worse - I took a 10k/year pay cut. Some of you may remember my earlier claim that people think VB programmers are cheaper because VB is "easier"... They're cheaper because people with even a spark of ego and self respect consider a VB job as something to pay their tuition at the McDonald's School of Burger Flipping.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Really? Not sure where you're working but I've been doing this VB.NET job, in North Florida for 3 years now...Started well above $100K salary, with 401K AND FULL Retirement package...and it's only been getting better from there. No overtime, no "immediate" deadlines (I set them for the team and adjust as needed), top floor, corner office. Call me stupid, or dim or whatever...just call me well paid. I know I'm gloating, but whenever I see VB bashers complain they HAVE to do VB.NET, well I just have to smile. Good luck with that new job. Hope you find respect soon. :)
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Where's amnesty international? Forcing people to do VB is an abuse of economic power and obviously against human rights.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB
Once upon a long, long time there were many little BASIC languages. They wanted to make programming as easy as talking, so they used fragments of english words as commands. The fragments were hardly readable and didn't really remind of the words they were taken from, but anyway the code looked a little bit like bad English ... instead of good code.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Specifying the type AFTER the variable name
Come on, that's just like Pascal. ;) You're not alone!
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot"
Don't forget to use
Somethingwhere something is notNothing.John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file?
Because in ancient times the hard drives were slower. When the page stopped scrolling, the computer needed a little time to read the next lines of code. The line means "Don't wait, there are no further lines".
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job...
You will lose your sanity, your good mood, your sleep and health - but you'll always keep your status. :thumbsup: By the way, VB coders are cheap just as road sweepers and trash collectors are.
This statement is false.
modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:19 AM
Welcome back, Corinna, haven't seen you in a while. Who had the pleasure of your lovely company, and how are you doing? :)
Cheers, Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.
I seem to recall a lot of C++ folks dissing C# when it was new. I think they actually compared it to VB due to the warm and fuzzy front end and lack of pointers. Times have certainly changed...
I still see people who think that C# is faster than VB. One guy in a forum actually explained it was because C# has less text in the same code, so the computer can read it faster....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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In VB6, arrays were 0 based. In fact you need to got back to vb3 [AFAIR] for the 1 based arrays by default. VB6 collections where 1 absed, but that's another story.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
If you go back even farther (Turbo?) Pascal would let you define an array with an arbitrary range. If you wanted legal indexes to be -3 to +21 you could define it that way and it'd do the offset math for you. :cool: OTOH my teacher never explained that we should start at 0 to avoid bad habits because all normal languages did so and that it would result in faster code. :doh:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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If you go back even farther (Turbo?) Pascal would let you define an array with an arbitrary range. If you wanted legal indexes to be -3 to +21 you could define it that way and it'd do the offset math for you. :cool: OTOH my teacher never explained that we should start at 0 to avoid bad habits because all normal languages did so and that it would result in faster code. :doh:
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
[bond voice=Q] Pay attention Neely! [bond=off] I said default!, this is valid:
Dim StringArray(-7 To 42) As String
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
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Welcome back, Corinna, haven't seen you in a while. Who had the pleasure of your lovely company, and how are you doing? :)
Cheers, Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
Back? I've been reading here many times, especially the JOTDs. I just didn't know smart things to post here. You know, I don't babble when there's nothing to say - I simply shut up. :rolleyes:
This statement is false.
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Back? I've been reading here many times, especially the JOTDs. I just didn't know smart things to post here. You know, I don't babble when there's nothing to say - I simply shut up. :rolleyes:
This statement is false.
Babbling is much more fun.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done.
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I still see people who think that C# is faster than VB. One guy in a forum actually explained it was because C# has less text in the same code, so the computer can read it faster....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Oh yes, and comments slow down the program, because the computer has jump around them...
This statement is false.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job...
Some of us in the Platinum members' lounge were discussing this, John. Will let you know what we decide on this :rolleyes:
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
My latest book : C++/CLI in Action / Amazon.com linkDon't worry! I'm sure the more VB he has to do at work the more C# he'll need at home.
This statement is false.
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Oh yes, and comments slow down the program, because the computer has jump around them...
This statement is false.
No, it has to READ them, so it knows what's about to happen.....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Yep. Agreed. I've worked with VB6. It's true that it encourages bad pratices. But, if you consider youselves to be a good/great programmer, you are bound to avoid them (like the use of variants X|). IF used properly, VB.NET code will generate the same MSIL that its C# counterpart will generate. In short, this is a never ending discussion. If you consider youself a programmer, you should not be bound to one single language. EDIT: I too am a C# guy, but I have learned early on NOT to hate any technology (I know, some of you'll say VB is not technology), however old school it is; and that helps, a lot :-D EDIT2: I see a lot of VB haters over here, so I'll stop now, before my existence gets endangered.
Currently Reading: Eclipse by Stephenie Meyer Next in Queue: Breaking Dawn by Stephenie Meyer - Kirtan
modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:12 AM
I've noted that if you present a good argument, with logic and passion combined, you won't get many downvotes. Even if you like VB. While most of the people like X language and enjoy bashing Y language, they won't be jerks about it to the people that like Y language. I'm a newb programmer with mostly the 3 flavors of C under my belt and some VB once upon a time. Playing with VB gave me headaches. But I am not going to tell the people they suck because they got it. Well, okay I might.
