Visual Basic - I'm in Hell [modified]
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed
Having the type in front of the variable name is stupid. It leads to problems such as http://blogs.msdn.com/ericlippert/archive/2009/08/17/arrays-of-arrays.aspx[^]. It leads to even worse syntax in C (think function pointers). Moreover, it doesn't mix syntactically with lambdas - there's just no place in front where you could stick the return type. C++0x had to introduce the ability to specify the return type after the parameter list to solve this and other problems.
auto function(int a) -> int;
You can't beat the clarity of: VAR a : ARRAY[1..3] OF POINTER TO ARRAY[1..10, 1..10] OF INTEGER; Pascal/Delphi are somewhat less readable (but more concise) when it comes to pointers, but the general idea is the same: types should always be read left to right in a natural way. Of course, if you do this, you want the type to be on the right of variable name in a declaration, otherwise it just looks weird. I mean, say we had: [,][]int a; // huh?
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
Well, when you cannot take it any longer, we are hiring C++/SQL/HTML skilled people in the Chicago area. Drop me a line right before your head explodes X|
onwards and upwards...
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
Save yourself some pain and start every project by making sure Option Strict and Option Explicit are both turned on. That'll take away just about all of VB.NET's perpensity to do implicit conversions for you. After that, it works just like C#, just written in a funky way. Look at it this way, it's not as bad a COBOL...
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009... -
Am I the only one whose going to stick up for this language? I mean, it's only a syntax at the end of the day. True, C# is more satisfying to work with, but there's not that much more in it that you can't do in VB. John, I think you'll get used to the syntax pretty quickly & soon wonder what all the fuss was about... Just spare a thought for all the poor sods out there who are stuck with VB6 X|
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
I used to say this, until I took a VB project. I NEVER got used to the syntax, I ALWAYS thought it blows. Now, if I'd learned VB first, I guess I'd be used to it, and I may hate C# syntax. As I said above, I know VB and C# do the same thing, it's not like the VB6/C++ days. But, the syntax is just too cumbersome for me. I do like being able to define that a method handles an event in the method signature. That's all I ever liked about VB.NET.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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No, it has to READ them, so it knows what's about to happen.....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
:laugh: :laugh:
"mostly watching the human race is like watching dogs watch tv ... they see the pictures move but the meaning escapes them"
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ragnaroknrol wrote:
I know someone that did, in fact, die this way and we all knew he would die in a comical yet utterly tragic accident.
Details please?
------------------------------------ In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms. Stephen J Gould
This was one of those people that you knew the genetics had compensated for. Tall, very good looking, and the girls loved him. He was dumber than a box of rocks. I watched him do a hand stand at a party and fall. He was on the 3rd floor balcony and went head first 3 stories. Broke his neck. He was walking again a month later and fully recovered 2 months after that. This was after several football injuries that should have left him maimed and an incident involving a power socket and a fork that wouldn't let go. (all of these at the age of 16 or more) Tough as an ox that one. He was working as a garbage man and the policies indicated that he should always be in visual contact with his partner. He always ignored that and his partner had told him that if he dind't stop screwing around with that he might get hurt. The partner decided to stop wasting time trying to find him after a month of this and finally just went ahead and backed up to a spot. Heard a thunk and a brief scream as he was pinned to a dumpster up against a wall and well, eww. At the funeral there were some people that had to leave when they mentioned his death. It would have been horrible to the family to hear the sniggers. I was at the back of the church just to make sure I could get out before giggling. Yea, he was a nice guy, but come on, it's not like you can't hear or see a truck backing up at 3 MPH and move a yard to your left to avoid being crushed. I would have put him up for a Darwin award at the time but he had a 2 year old kid.
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
One wise man[^] once said:- "Do not program in your language, program into your language." If you remember this mantra, you will never care about petty things.
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Don't worry! I'm sure the more VB he has to do at work the more C# he'll need at home.
This statement is false.
Corinna John wrote:
the more C# he'll need at home
I think he will need something much stronger like Assembler or typing in code in hex directly.
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
Oh come on, John. The moment you switched from C++ you started using VB, only with some extra curly braces and semicolons to make you feel better :) There is nothing wrong with VB - a good tool for the job. As for the syntax, I actually like it better than C# - far less redundant braces and semicolons. Besides, it has real functions. Give it a chance, you may even get to like it.
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
So, more VB bashing...
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Specifying the type AFTER the variable name
Actually, it's the C-family languages that are arse about face with this, but we've just gotten used to it.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment
It's not too bad. The VS editor behaviour is more of an annoyance to me than the language. You will most likely have noticed this.
Kevin
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Save yourself some pain and start every project by making sure Option Strict and Option Explicit are both turned on. That'll take away just about all of VB.NET's perpensity to do implicit conversions for you. After that, it works just like C#, just written in a funky way. Look at it this way, it's not as bad a COBOL...
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009...Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Save yourself some pain and start every project by making sure Option Strict and Option Explicit are both turned on
The defaults are a pain in the neck. Although I do the above the problem arises when you're having to maintain code and the original project started out with the defaults... There are some oter subtleties when switching from C# to VB. I've been surprised more than once! The IDE editor support is dreadful compared to C#. :mad:
Kevin
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I am about to start my first day at a new job doing VB.Net (I think I just threw up a little in my mouth, and I didn't even say it out loud). How do you guys work with this without going absolutely insane? 0) "Dim" - what you must be if you actually *like* VB 1) Specifying the type AFTER the variable name - the order of the universe should not be changed 2) Pointless sytax - "as", "of", "is", "isnot", "then", "end" - why did they omit the really useful ones, like "whetherornot", "notquite", "absenceoflogic", and "barf"? 3) If there's a "Dim", why isn't there a "bright" and "off"? 4) Why is there a solid line at the end of a source file? When it stops scrolling, I must be at the end of the file - I don't need a line to show that I am. 5) Explicit, strict and infer - three different ways to make your code as reliable as soggy bread. 6) Why? Just WHY? I question my ability to survive in this kind of environment. I asked my wife to hid all of my pistols so I don't feel compelled to shoot myself... The IDE just shut down with this message:
Visual Studio is busy. We're trying to figure out where we went wrong. Seriously, we didn't think this Visual Basic thing would last more than a couple of months, yet here you are trying to make sense of something that makes none. HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.I hope I don't lose my Platinum Member status as a result of this job... I will NOT be posting VB articles..45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001modified on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:31 AM
Ahhh..screw it, I was enjoying you dangling there, but you do realize you can write all your code in c# and use one of those converter things to make it vb.net right? :)
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
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It's even worse - I took a 10k/year pay cut. Some of you may remember my earlier claim that people think VB programmers are cheaper because VB is "easier"... They're cheaper because people with even a spark of ego and self respect consider a VB job as something to pay their tuition at the McDonald's School of Burger Flipping.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001I have been there and done that so I feel your pain. The important point is that you ARE getting paid. In this day and age that is a good thing. Consider it an exercise in character development. A few years ago I had to take an 'office' job after 20+ years of freelancing. I'm back on my own now and have more character than I can stand.
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Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Save yourself some pain and start every project by making sure Option Strict and Option Explicit are both turned on
The defaults are a pain in the neck. Although I do the above the problem arises when you're having to maintain code and the original project started out with the defaults... There are some oter subtleties when switching from C# to VB. I've been surprised more than once! The IDE editor support is dreadful compared to C#. :mad:
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
The defaults are a pain in the neck. Although I do the above the problem arises when you're having to maintain code and the original project started out with the defaults... There are some oter subtleties when switching from C# to VB. I've been surprised more than once!
Yeah I know what you mean. But, it's a paycheck...
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
The IDE editor support is dreadful compared to C#.
Have you used C++/CLI yet?? The VB.NET IDE is far and away superior to the support for C++. Intellisense is almost non-existant!
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009... -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
HELLO! IT'S 2009! Get a real job, loser, and learn C#.
I seem to recall a lot of C++ folks dissing C# when it was new. I think they actually compared it to VB due to the warm and fuzzy front end and lack of pointers. Times have certainly changed...
Did you by any chance reply last night to my Lounge post on Twitter? I got an email notification purportedly from you that said
Ummmm.... I don't have audio at work but the video alone is "suspicious". How is the guy communicating to the "carer"? How are they sure she's not the one typing while he sits 100% idle?but the forum link was broken. Just wondering if you made a mistake or there's a subtle bug in CP.Cheers, Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
The defaults are a pain in the neck. Although I do the above the problem arises when you're having to maintain code and the original project started out with the defaults... There are some oter subtleties when switching from C# to VB. I've been surprised more than once!
Yeah I know what you mean. But, it's a paycheck...
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
The IDE editor support is dreadful compared to C#.
Have you used C++/CLI yet?? The VB.NET IDE is far and away superior to the support for C++. Intellisense is almost non-existant!
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
2006, 2007, 2008
But no longer in 2009...Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Yeah I know what you mean. But, it's a paycheck...
Yes, my last contract was using VB .NET and I've also done one lasting over a year.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Have you used C++/CLI yet??
No.
Dave Kreskowiak wrote:
Intellisense is almost non-existant!
I gather it's worse or possibly literally non-existent in VS 2010? It looks like Visual Assist is a must for C++ devs. Re: VB, my gripes are with the way features such as regions and code snippets work compared to C#. There are a few other niggles as well (I can't recall them right now) which you tend to notice if you've previously been doing C#. Re: the language I do prefer C# but, unlike many here, I can live with VB. I do think that all .NET developers should be reasonably comfortable with at least being able to read both languages irrespective of their likes.
Kevin
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Did you by any chance reply last night to my Lounge post on Twitter? I got an email notification purportedly from you that said
Ummmm.... I don't have audio at work but the video alone is "suspicious". How is the guy communicating to the "carer"? How are they sure she's not the one typing while he sits 100% idle?but the forum link was broken. Just wondering if you made a mistake or there's a subtle bug in CP.Cheers, Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Just wondering if you made a mistake
Yep, I was on a non-CP forum at the same time and responded to the wrong message. I realized it as I pressed the "Post Message" button, so I just deleted it. Sorry, for the confusion. :-O
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Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
Just wondering if you made a mistake
Yep, I was on a non-CP forum at the same time and responded to the wrong message. I realized it as I pressed the "Post Message" button, so I just deleted it. Sorry, for the confusion. :-O
Ha ha, no worries. :)
Cheers, Vikram. (Cracked not one CCC, but two!)
