Buy a book, lmgtfy ... Quick answers
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I know we all get fed up of the tedious questions that have had absolutely no research attempts before posting, and if they had then the question would never have seen the light of day in the forums/quick answers. I also get equally fed up of seeing the same old 'buy a book', 'search google' etc answers that are reposted time and time again. Books, Google, blogs, articles are just resources which exactly what the forums/quick answers are supposed to be too IMO. It never bothered me too much before as the post disappeared of the recent pages rapidly, but now with the quick answers the crap post is bumped to the top of the list without an actual answer to the question. Surely if a member doesn't have an answer or isn't prepared to give one then a better solution would not be to answer at all so it can disappear into obscurity where it belongs?
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Why are you using VB6? Do you hate yourself? (Christian Graus)I guess it has something to do with the general attitude of the site visitors. Here on CP there is an historical record of how below-average questions are handled: insulting the poster, providing a sarcastic answer or simply writing wrong forum/bad question. I don't know why, but on StackOverflow this does not happen. A bad question gets either fixed in no time by other members who have enough points to do that, or removed/closed. There are no flames, no insults, no sarcastic answers. If you look at their list of unanswered questions, you can't even find a single one that is a bad question. That is a q/a site. CP is so much inferior to date for asking technical questions. BTW, if you google something programming-related, more often than not you find the answer on SO. Now, CP is still great for articles and, most importantly, for The Lounge we're in everyday, but maybe it's time to change the way q/a forums are handled as we know of vastly a superior model.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Photos/CP Flickr Group - ScrewTurn Wiki v3
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I can't stand to read the questions anymore. A handful of good ones still show up, but by the time i get to them i've read so many that lack all relevant details... look to be copy/pasted from work orders... or both... that i've lost the stomach to answer anything. Some people apparently haven't quite gotten to this point yet.
I sure if you were to Google or "read a book" you will be able to find the material you need to discover that life and the lounge is not just about you and your level of expertise. It is somewhat paranoid to think that most questions are asked just to annoy you. Someone with little coding experience also has little posting experience and could benefit being guided to some explanation on how to post. Be gentle, be kind and you will be happy.
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I sure if you were to Google or "read a book" you will be able to find the material you need to discover that life and the lounge is not just about you and your level of expertise. It is somewhat paranoid to think that most questions are asked just to annoy you. Someone with little coding experience also has little posting experience and could benefit being guided to some explanation on how to post. Be gentle, be kind and you will be happy.
ChrisBraum wrote:
It is somewhat paranoid to think that most questions are asked just to annoy you
Uh, yeah. Not to mention wildly egotistical. Questions are asked because users want quick answers, not advice, book suggestions, or help using a search engine. When they get an answer, they have succeeded. Why would they think at all about those reading and answering, unless doing so was necessary in order to obtain answers? So, as Davey notes, the only solution is to leave them unanswered.
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I guess it has something to do with the general attitude of the site visitors. Here on CP there is an historical record of how below-average questions are handled: insulting the poster, providing a sarcastic answer or simply writing wrong forum/bad question. I don't know why, but on StackOverflow this does not happen. A bad question gets either fixed in no time by other members who have enough points to do that, or removed/closed. There are no flames, no insults, no sarcastic answers. If you look at their list of unanswered questions, you can't even find a single one that is a bad question. That is a q/a site. CP is so much inferior to date for asking technical questions. BTW, if you google something programming-related, more often than not you find the answer on SO. Now, CP is still great for articles and, most importantly, for The Lounge we're in everyday, but maybe it's time to change the way q/a forums are handled as we know of vastly a superior model.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Photos/CP Flickr Group - ScrewTurn Wiki v3
Dario Solera wrote:
There are no flames, no insults, no sarcastic answers.
Well... There are. But they're not ubiquitous, generally discouraged, and as you note they die along with the question when it's closed and eventually deleted. IMHO, seeing a bad question closed goes a long way toward discouraging this: why beat a dead horse?
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I guess it has something to do with the general attitude of the site visitors. Here on CP there is an historical record of how below-average questions are handled: insulting the poster, providing a sarcastic answer or simply writing wrong forum/bad question. I don't know why, but on StackOverflow this does not happen. A bad question gets either fixed in no time by other members who have enough points to do that, or removed/closed. There are no flames, no insults, no sarcastic answers. If you look at their list of unanswered questions, you can't even find a single one that is a bad question. That is a q/a site. CP is so much inferior to date for asking technical questions. BTW, if you google something programming-related, more often than not you find the answer on SO. Now, CP is still great for articles and, most importantly, for The Lounge we're in everyday, but maybe it's time to change the way q/a forums are handled as we know of vastly a superior model.
If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. - Charlie Brooker My Photos/CP Flickr Group - ScrewTurn Wiki v3
I was going to mention StackOverFlow, but I think Brother Dario's comments convey everything I had to say. Whether StackOverFlow can sustain the current level of broadly-distributed moderation that is working quite well, remains to be seen. I wish CP could clone Pete O'Hanlon ! best, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
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ChrisBraum wrote:
It is somewhat paranoid to think that most questions are asked just to annoy you
Uh, yeah. Not to mention wildly egotistical. Questions are asked because users want quick answers, not advice, book suggestions, or help using a search engine. When they get an answer, they have succeeded. Why would they think at all about those reading and answering, unless doing so was necessary in order to obtain answers? So, as Davey notes, the only solution is to leave them unanswered.
Then I imagine the lounge will become the exclusive domain of the "experts" until, of course, the "super experts" eliminate the "experts" and so on. I must say I find the snide remarks and character slaying by the "experts" far more annoying than the questions of the "ignorant". Maybe the time has come to try something new!
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I know we all get fed up of the tedious questions that have had absolutely no research attempts before posting, and if they had then the question would never have seen the light of day in the forums/quick answers. I also get equally fed up of seeing the same old 'buy a book', 'search google' etc answers that are reposted time and time again. Books, Google, blogs, articles are just resources which exactly what the forums/quick answers are supposed to be too IMO. It never bothered me too much before as the post disappeared of the recent pages rapidly, but now with the quick answers the crap post is bumped to the top of the list without an actual answer to the question. Surely if a member doesn't have an answer or isn't prepared to give one then a better solution would not be to answer at all so it can disappear into obscurity where it belongs?
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Why are you using VB6? Do you hate yourself? (Christian Graus)Well said. Surely the whole point of the programming forums is to be able to ask a question and receive a quick and correct solution to a problem from people who have far more knowledge and experience than a lot of authors of programming books I've read and we all know that MSDN is 100% correct, right? As for the level of question asked - a new starter in programming might not neccesarily know that a certain question is dumb, thats why they're asking, the typical read a book/google it response does nothing but deter people who might genuinely be trying to learn, effectively 'dumbing down' the site and possibly making things worse. Having said that, persistent posting of the same question, do my homework for me questions and obviously wrong forum questions deserve all the stick they get!
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Then I imagine the lounge will become the exclusive domain of the "experts" until, of course, the "super experts" eliminate the "experts" and so on. I must say I find the snide remarks and character slaying by the "experts" far more annoying than the questions of the "ignorant". Maybe the time has come to try something new!
This isn't at all about the "experts" lording over the "ignorant". There are people who post very general, basic, poorly worded "questions" (if you can even call them that) and even when given some sort of solution just post again asking for the code. They don't want help in figuring it out, they want some person from the "magic answer forum" to do all their work for them. They aren't just ignorant, they are lazy and waste everybody's time.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep But I have promises to keep and lines to code before I sleep, and lines to code before I sleep...
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I know we all get fed up of the tedious questions that have had absolutely no research attempts before posting, and if they had then the question would never have seen the light of day in the forums/quick answers. I also get equally fed up of seeing the same old 'buy a book', 'search google' etc answers that are reposted time and time again. Books, Google, blogs, articles are just resources which exactly what the forums/quick answers are supposed to be too IMO. It never bothered me too much before as the post disappeared of the recent pages rapidly, but now with the quick answers the crap post is bumped to the top of the list without an actual answer to the question. Surely if a member doesn't have an answer or isn't prepared to give one then a better solution would not be to answer at all so it can disappear into obscurity where it belongs?
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Why are you using VB6? Do you hate yourself? (Christian Graus)Just my own personal opinion: I've been developing for a lot of years, and one of the greatest things about making this my career is that things are always changing, there are always new things to learn and use. I wouldn't have it any other way. So when I encounter some task that I cannot figure out, or I have to learn some new tidbit of knowledge, I try to do everything I can to figure it out on my own. I read through my own library of books (who amongst us don't have that extensive library - mine takes up two bookshelves), or search the web, even going as far as to read the manual or MSDN :) Along the way, I learn about the technology, a lot of times more than just the immediate problem. This exposes me to a lot more than just the one specific iota of knowledge that I needed, but really to gain understanding. I think that this is a lot better than getting that quick answer in some forum posting. I might get my answer, but do I really understand what I have gotten? This leads to yet more requests for quick answers, etc. which this thread seems to be centered around. There are still times when I need to post a question to a forum for help, but usually at that point I have researched the problem to the nth degree, and instead of a very general, broad and vague question, I can at least ask something a bit more succinct, with my own thoughts on possible solutions or directions. In the long run, it is about learning, not just getting pat answers. In this "internet age" it seems that everyone wants that instant answer to their questions, without making at least some level of effort to research and really learn what it is they are trying to do. Again, just my own opinion...
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This isn't at all about the "experts" lording over the "ignorant". There are people who post very general, basic, poorly worded "questions" (if you can even call them that) and even when given some sort of solution just post again asking for the code. They don't want help in figuring it out, they want some person from the "magic answer forum" to do all their work for them. They aren't just ignorant, they are lazy and waste everybody's time.
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep But I have promises to keep and lines to code before I sleep, and lines to code before I sleep...
Grant you that some may just want their homework done! But wouldn't it be quicker and less stressful to just ignore those you suspect of cheating and let others who want to answer do so?
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Then I imagine the lounge will become the exclusive domain of the "experts" until, of course, the "super experts" eliminate the "experts" and so on. I must say I find the snide remarks and character slaying by the "experts" far more annoying than the questions of the "ignorant". Maybe the time has come to try something new!
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Just my own personal opinion: I've been developing for a lot of years, and one of the greatest things about making this my career is that things are always changing, there are always new things to learn and use. I wouldn't have it any other way. So when I encounter some task that I cannot figure out, or I have to learn some new tidbit of knowledge, I try to do everything I can to figure it out on my own. I read through my own library of books (who amongst us don't have that extensive library - mine takes up two bookshelves), or search the web, even going as far as to read the manual or MSDN :) Along the way, I learn about the technology, a lot of times more than just the immediate problem. This exposes me to a lot more than just the one specific iota of knowledge that I needed, but really to gain understanding. I think that this is a lot better than getting that quick answer in some forum posting. I might get my answer, but do I really understand what I have gotten? This leads to yet more requests for quick answers, etc. which this thread seems to be centered around. There are still times when I need to post a question to a forum for help, but usually at that point I have researched the problem to the nth degree, and instead of a very general, broad and vague question, I can at least ask something a bit more succinct, with my own thoughts on possible solutions or directions. In the long run, it is about learning, not just getting pat answers. In this "internet age" it seems that everyone wants that instant answer to their questions, without making at least some level of effort to research and really learn what it is they are trying to do. Again, just my own opinion...
I couldn't agree more! I often spend many days researching and experimenting with something before I post my cry for help which is thankfully quite rare nowadays. I enjoy the process of learning/programming stimulating and nothing would bore me more than to be a copy and paste coder. I was questioning the treatment some questions are given here. This is a site for every one, including noobs who may be finding the most basic of concepts difficult to grasp and may not even know what search terms to [insert search engine of choice]. In addition, I found this site a long time ago as the result of a search. If a search engine leads me here, and this is a site with an area for programming questions, then surely I would expect it to be OK to ask instead of being told to search elsewhere or keep searching thereby implying this site is not the correct place to ask programming questions at all! If I need to ask for example how to get the text in a TextBox into my own variable in my limited broken English, that is just as valid as enquiring about complex implementations of MVVM or whatever. Buying and studying a book would answer both questions, but my resource of choice at that moment is CP so I see nothing wrong with asking either here.
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Why are you using VB6? Do you hate yourself? (Christian Graus)