Mouse Alternatives
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Tom John wrote:
improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse
No offends, but are you a manager?
50-50-90 rule: Anytime I have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there's a 90% probability I'll get it wrong...!!
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IMO the developer spends 99.9% of the time thinking and only 0.01% typing/interacting with the IDE; hence the mouse/trackball/whatever input device cannot directly affects the productivity. Additionally how you going to use the “stinky mouse” scroll and how the hell I’ll play CoD 4 with my feet? If it will be a mouse alternative I would put my bet on some laser/infrared ring-like device on your point finger.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
hell I’ll play CoD 4 with my feet
OK - here's the truth - I was actually playing WoW at the time and figured a decent foot solution would be reasonable for character control... then I figured the same "productivity" solutioin may help with coding... Busted!
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Norm .net wrote:
Although this isn't commercially available it would make a great product for a start up.
Nonsense, there are lots of eye trackers commercially available: http://asleyetracking.com/site/Products/MobileEye/tabid/70/Default.aspx[^] http://www.sr-research.com/EL_II.html[^] http://www.smivision.com/en/eye-gaze-tracking-systems/products/iview-x-hed.html[^] I don't think they are quite at the stage where you could pick one up at Best Buy, nor are they priced for the average consumer. But they do exist.
We played with $40K USA ones back 2 to 5 few years ago. Way too expensive, way too inaccurate, way too complicated to operate, does not work well with some eye glasses and finally does not work well if you can not keep your eyes wide open.
John
modified on Monday, November 30, 2009 9:52 AM
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
Tom John wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method
Might make for an interesting home project--converting an old electronic organ footpedals to a mouse control. Maybe the stops could be converted to macros. ;) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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Can you imagine the results of using a foot mouse, combined with a good MP3 player, used by a programmer who really gets into the music (ie, foot tapping, chair dancing, etc)? :-D Come to think of it, this might explain Vista...:suss:
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
foot tapping
Right, that's what would do me in.
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
One problem: training and muscle memory. I imagine a foot-based solution will require substantial training time, since you are trying to get your leg/ankle/foot to perform a precision task. You already have the neural wiring to perform precise, rapid motions with your hands. Unless you're an Olympic gymnast, you probably don't have that kind of kinesthetic sense in your legs and feet.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
If we start using our feet into our work the term “coding monkeys” will be finally fully justified.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
I use my right foot for audio transcription control, not sure my left foot could cope with doing the spatial control. But I have a keyboard with a scroll wheel, back, forward, close, and edit (mark, cut, paste, copy) buttons (not keys, they don't repeat), clustered at the left end of keyboard, and a trackball at the right end above the number pad, so I rarely use the mouse or even the trackball in text intensive tasks. I use the mouse for web surfing, not sure that eyeball tracking would work for that. I'm often surprised at how many people aren't aware of the context menu button. On real keyboards it's usually wedged between the right alt & ctrl keys - I often see people grab the mouse just to do a right click.
"we shall patiently bear the trials that fate imposes on us" -- Anton Chekhov Uncle Vanya
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
A lot of people use TrackIR for view movement in flight sims instead of using a mouse. There was one I used to use called headmouse which didn't require you to use a goofy headpiece though, it just tracked your head movement using a webcam. Found this, looks to be a continuation of the original of some sort. http://robotica.udl.es/headmouse/headmouse2/headmouse2e.html[^]
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IMO the developer spends 99.9% of the time thinking and only 0.01% typing/interacting with the IDE; hence the mouse/trackball/whatever input device cannot directly affects the productivity. Additionally how you going to use the “stinky mouse” scroll and how the hell I’ll play CoD 4 with my feet? If it will be a mouse alternative I would put my bet on some laser/infrared ring-like device on your point finger.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
IMO the developer spends 99.9% of the time thinking and only 0.01% typing/interacting with the IDE
I think that distribution is a bit off. Or maybe I'm really good at thinking while I'm typing...
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
You might be interested in this: http://www.eyewriter.org/[^] which uses a hacked PS3 eye wired to some empty glasses, open source software available here[^], could presumably be used with any other suitable webcam etc video source. On the commercial side, I've tried the headmouse extreme[^] which is expensive, but not prohibitively if you have a need for mouse replacement (my wife destroyed her wrists/forearms writing her phd thesis). It works straight out of the box (appears as a usb mouse), mounts on your screen and tracks a dot you put on your head/hat/glasses but did seem to lead to a stiff neck from precise head movement.
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
Is it the good ol' touch-screen for mouse moving not enough? However the mouse has an advantages. Most of the time (all of the time is more accurate) I didn't notice my right hand moves between mouse and keyboard when I change the mouse-clicking mode with keyboard-typing mode and vice versa. To be a programmer, that makes you really quick in hands movement. (And trust me, that helps you with the girls :laugh: )
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Tom John wrote:
I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method
Might make for an interesting home project--converting an old electronic organ footpedals to a mouse control. Maybe the stops could be converted to macros. ;) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
Only if I can wear a big black cape and yell "Muwa ha ha ha" every time I quash an exception :)
The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
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One problem: training and muscle memory. I imagine a foot-based solution will require substantial training time, since you are trying to get your leg/ankle/foot to perform a precision task. You already have the neural wiring to perform precise, rapid motions with your hands. Unless you're an Olympic gymnast, you probably don't have that kind of kinesthetic sense in your legs and feet.
Software Zen:
delete this;Or a church organ player! These usually have a second (or usually third or fourth) keyboard (named a "manual") that is played with the feet, providing all the really low notes. Similarly a concert harp requires both hands to pluck, whilst the feet move seven pedals up and down to select different notes. My point is that these skills can obviously be learnt where there is a need, or they are sufficiently useful. The same is true of touch typing. The fact most of us do not have these skills presently is irrelevant.
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
An interesting idea. Laptops typically come with a trackpad (it's called something like that) -- that mouse pad you rub to move the mouse cursor. In theory, you could use that with your thumbs without taking your fingers off the keys, although I usually pick up my hand to use those. There are also those little little nubby mice that are in between the keys on the keyboard... never used them, but in theory you'd never have to move your hands off the keyboard with those either. If you could find a standalone trackpad, you could use that on the floor with your toe pretty effectively I'm sure. Or perhaps just put your laptop on the floor and hook up the video output to another monitor on the desk (as well as a wireless keyboard) and you've got an instant toe trackpad. It would also be pretty neat to have one foot control the mouse buttons (left and right) while the other foot spins a volleyball sized globe that moves the mouse cursor around (they already have mice that have the mouse ball on top, so you spin that rather than moving the mouse around). And heck, might as well simplify the task for your feet... could just have the left and right mouse buttons on the keyboard along with the other keys... that way, your feet would only have to focus on moving the spinning volleyball thingy. *runs to patent office*
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I had a thought last night - improving productivity using a foot controlled mouse - keeping hands free for the keyboard. 90% of life in VS is keyboard driven, with shortcuts, chords, etc, but you still seem to have to jump to the mouse every now and again - this got me thinking last night that my feet don't do a lot when I'm coding (other than being mauled by the dog when she wants some attention). I was wondering if anyone has tried an alternate cursor control method, a quick Google found that there are foot mice and ones that react to head movement. Cheers Tom
This discussion reminds me of a hilarious evening circa 1985 (?) or so when something called the "Head Mouse" for the Macintosh was demo'd at the Berkeley Macintosh User's Group (BMUG). It was about as accurate as spitting into the wind :) I have no idea if the company that made that product is still around; I suspect not. You actually moved your head from side to side and back and forwards to make the Mac do things : I could imagine a whole office full of people all of whom would be engaged in strange head-dances :) Personally I hate the idea of touching a screen with either my fingers or a stylus, and I don't like laptop trackpads. I once did use a trackball with a Mac for a year or two, but went back to mousey. Deyan Georgiev wrote : "If it will be a mouse alternative I would put my bet on some laser/infrared ring-like device on your point finger." I am fascinated by the idea of gestural input, and my fantasy (maybe a little like Deyan's) is that you'd have two rings, one one each hand : each would broadcast at some frequency, and sensors on the computer would interpolate movement and proximity somehow allowing you to define sets of gestures without touching the screen. best, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
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d@nish wrote:
No offends, but are you a manager?
More likely just someone like me, who is fed up with having to lose their finger position on the keyboard to reach for the mouse. I also get that the other way around: If I'm doing a mouse-oriented task, I sit differently, so reaching for the keyboard can be a pain.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
More likely just someone like me, who is fed up with having to lose their finger position on the keyboard to reach for the mouse.
That's why I love the UltraNav keyboards (some images: http://images.google.nl/images?q=ultranav+keyboard[^]) My hands never leave the keyboard... --jeroen
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We played with $40K USA ones back 2 to 5 few years ago. Way too expensive, way too inaccurate, way too complicated to operate, does not work well with some eye glasses and finally does not work well if you can not keep your eyes wide open.
John
modified on Monday, November 30, 2009 9:52 AM
John M. Drescher wrote:
does not work well if you can not keep your eyes wide open.
Asians can't use them then?
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Or a church organ player! These usually have a second (or usually third or fourth) keyboard (named a "manual") that is played with the feet, providing all the really low notes. Similarly a concert harp requires both hands to pluck, whilst the feet move seven pedals up and down to select different notes. My point is that these skills can obviously be learnt where there is a need, or they are sufficiently useful. The same is true of touch typing. The fact most of us do not have these skills presently is irrelevant.
I wasn't saying they couldn't be learnt. I was merely pointing out that fine motor skills in the legs/ankles/feet are much less common than in the hands for your typical population.
Software Zen:
delete this;