Do you "code at home"?
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
and to find out what is appropriate you have to know about it (often at home).
That's a big HELL NO! :) I'm a professional and I get paid to determine appropriate technology, I'm not a volunteer. If you want to volunteer and give time away to your employer and bring down your salary by diluting it with your free time have at 'er, but keep in mind your bringing down the rest of us when you or anyone else does that.
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
My point is simple, learning should not stop outside of 9-6.
John C wrote:
I get paid to determine appropriate technology
Sure! But keep in mind that a person who has a wider knowledge of different technologies can do a better job at selecting a technology than a person who has a shallow knowledge. Consider, a simple case. I am in a meeting with John Simmons and some other guy and deciding to use a right technology for a problem. As John Simmons is already familiar with Azure, he may recommend me Azure and show how Azure fits well for the solution. The other guy who has learnt only at work may not even know about Azure. Of course, it may also be that the other guy has heard about Azure (but not used it) and recommends it. In this case John Simmons can come up with exact points on why it is not suitable. Anyway, John Simmons is much more valuable to me than the other guy. In my case, I learnt mac and iPhone development on my own spare time and I have got contracts to develop something on them and I have developed some neat ideas (which may bear fruit) on which business problems they might solve (for certain users). All this is possible because I learnt in my own spare time.
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My point is simple, learning should not stop outside of 9-6.
John C wrote:
I get paid to determine appropriate technology
Sure! But keep in mind that a person who has a wider knowledge of different technologies can do a better job at selecting a technology than a person who has a shallow knowledge. Consider, a simple case. I am in a meeting with John Simmons and some other guy and deciding to use a right technology for a problem. As John Simmons is already familiar with Azure, he may recommend me Azure and show how Azure fits well for the solution. The other guy who has learnt only at work may not even know about Azure. Of course, it may also be that the other guy has heard about Azure (but not used it) and recommends it. In this case John Simmons can come up with exact points on why it is not suitable. Anyway, John Simmons is much more valuable to me than the other guy. In my case, I learnt mac and iPhone development on my own spare time and I have got contracts to develop something on them and I have developed some neat ideas (which may bear fruit) on which business problems they might solve (for certain users). All this is possible because I learnt in my own spare time.
I don't disagree at all with your premise with the sole exception that as a professional developer it's something I should be paid to keep on top of. Do you think any other profession would volunteer their own time to keep up with the latest developments in their profession? I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work. I keep on top of areas of interest to my company's situation. I don't and would never learn Ruby on Rails for example because there is zero potential *ever* that we would develop for it and I've long grown out of this being a hobby for me. This doesn't mean I'm not aware of everything out there and what it can do, but I save my actual targetted in depth learning for stuff that is relevant. In terms of what I do in my own spare time I think *not* programming is of far more benefit to my company than getting all burned out doing nothing but programming. For example I exercise regularly and intensively, I read a *lot* of books on a variety of subjects, I play team sports, I am a hobbyist photographer, gardener, amateur chef etc etc. I think a well rounded person is much more valuable and useful than on obsessed programmer that does little else. Your suggestion seems to me to be the last in a long line of rights that we as developers have happily given over opening the door to the gutting of our own profession. If we don't respect our own time how can we expect our employers to?
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
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I have no doubt that "coding at home" (or coding outside of work or regular job) is the best way to improve your skills and learn new things. So what kind of coding do you do outside of work? I normally focus on something which is radically different than the kind of programming I do at work. At work I develop windows and web applications, at home I focus on Mac OSX and mobile applications. At work I use ASP.NET and at home I play with Ruby on Rails.
I'm with John C on this one. Not only the less coding at home the better, but I restrict the use of a computer at home to a minimal amount. Do all my banking on it, exchange some emails, surf some for news, etc. I make sure I enjoy other past times instead. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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I don't disagree at all with your premise with the sole exception that as a professional developer it's something I should be paid to keep on top of. Do you think any other profession would volunteer their own time to keep up with the latest developments in their profession? I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work. I keep on top of areas of interest to my company's situation. I don't and would never learn Ruby on Rails for example because there is zero potential *ever* that we would develop for it and I've long grown out of this being a hobby for me. This doesn't mean I'm not aware of everything out there and what it can do, but I save my actual targetted in depth learning for stuff that is relevant. In terms of what I do in my own spare time I think *not* programming is of far more benefit to my company than getting all burned out doing nothing but programming. For example I exercise regularly and intensively, I read a *lot* of books on a variety of subjects, I play team sports, I am a hobbyist photographer, gardener, amateur chef etc etc. I think a well rounded person is much more valuable and useful than on obsessed programmer that does little else. Your suggestion seems to me to be the last in a long line of rights that we as developers have happily given over opening the door to the gutting of our own profession. If we don't respect our own time how can we expect our employers to?
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
I am not arguing about having well rounded life. I am talking about going beyond work hours to keep yourself updated. Both are not mutually exclusive.
John C wrote:
with the sole exception that as a professional developer it's something I should be paid to keep on top of.
I am with you but it does not work like that in the real world.
John C wrote:
I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work
Nope! The doctors :) I know (and I know a lot of them:) ) not only work hard (12-14 hrs a day). They have very less time to read at work. They spend some free time reading magazines at home. I do not know about lawyers and architects. You have to be competitive in jobs of Doctors and developers. Doctors more so than developers.
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modified on Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:27 PM
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I don't disagree at all with your premise with the sole exception that as a professional developer it's something I should be paid to keep on top of. Do you think any other profession would volunteer their own time to keep up with the latest developments in their profession? I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work. I keep on top of areas of interest to my company's situation. I don't and would never learn Ruby on Rails for example because there is zero potential *ever* that we would develop for it and I've long grown out of this being a hobby for me. This doesn't mean I'm not aware of everything out there and what it can do, but I save my actual targetted in depth learning for stuff that is relevant. In terms of what I do in my own spare time I think *not* programming is of far more benefit to my company than getting all burned out doing nothing but programming. For example I exercise regularly and intensively, I read a *lot* of books on a variety of subjects, I play team sports, I am a hobbyist photographer, gardener, amateur chef etc etc. I think a well rounded person is much more valuable and useful than on obsessed programmer that does little else. Your suggestion seems to me to be the last in a long line of rights that we as developers have happily given over opening the door to the gutting of our own profession. If we don't respect our own time how can we expect our employers to?
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
John C wrote:
I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work.
A pretty common misconception among programmers. My father is an architect and I remember him reading about his field at home quite a bit. Pretty sure (good) doctors do the same.
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John C wrote:
I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work.
A pretty common misconception among programmers. My father is an architect and I remember him reading about his field at home quite a bit. Pretty sure (good) doctors do the same.
Thanks! I that proves my point for architects. Do you know any lawyers?:) Any professional who needs to be up to date has to do it.
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I'm with John C on this one. Not only the less coding at home the better, but I restrict the use of a computer at home to a minimal amount. Do all my banking on it, exchange some emails, surf some for news, etc. I make sure I enjoy other past times instead. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
Chris Meech wrote:
I make sure I enjoy other past times instead.
I am not against that at all. All I am saying is that 9-5 work is not sufficient to keep oneself up to date or improve skills when it comes to programming.
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Chris Meech wrote:
I make sure I enjoy other past times instead.
I am not against that at all. All I am saying is that 9-5 work is not sufficient to keep oneself up to date or improve skills when it comes to programming.
I like to strike an even balance on things.
8 hours for work
8 hours for sleep
8 hours for meThat's a pretty even balance don't you think. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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John C wrote:
I'm fairly certain that lawyers, doctors, architects etc subscribe to professional journals, get them at work and read them at work.
A pretty common misconception among programmers. My father is an architect and I remember him reading about his field at home quite a bit. Pretty sure (good) doctors do the same.
Uh huh. People that like their professions and are good at them, will inevitably seek new knowledge, regardless what time it is. I have noticed that during the years, the subject of my research have become more inline with my current field of work. When I was younger I could spend much time on subjects that are not even close to my work. These days when I learn new stuff it's because I want to do something better, or possible replace someone else at work if I really had to. Last week for instance, I spent a lot of time learning how to build Windows Embedded images, even though I just write the applications.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I like to strike an even balance on things.
8 hours for work
8 hours for sleep
8 hours for meThat's a pretty even balance don't you think. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
Oddly, it's got three components? ;)
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I have no doubt that "coding at home" (or coding outside of work or regular job) is the best way to improve your skills and learn new things. So what kind of coding do you do outside of work? I normally focus on something which is radically different than the kind of programming I do at work. At work I develop windows and web applications, at home I focus on Mac OSX and mobile applications. At work I use ASP.NET and at home I play with Ruby on Rails.
Occasionally. But when I code at home, it's mostly because I bring work home. As I am the senior developer with "full reign" where I work, I am quite free to try out new technology, methods, etc. Of course, I don't have time to build my own operating system, but it's pretty damn close anyway (I learned how to create Windows Embedded images the other week, and pretty much everything related to that! :-D). Hopefully my request to hire new programming talents will be heard after new year. Then I will have more time to focus on some new ideas of mine. Ideas to make some stuff better, but never had time to do.
-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit
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I like to strike an even balance on things.
8 hours for work
8 hours for sleep
8 hours for meThat's a pretty even balance don't you think. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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So you do 16 hrs of professional development on the weekend?
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
On the weekends, to strike a balance I change things up a bit
8 hours for drinking
8 hours for sleep
8 hours for meAlhough sometimes the 8 hours for sleep isn't enough. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
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I have no doubt that "coding at home" (or coding outside of work or regular job) is the best way to improve your skills and learn new things. So what kind of coding do you do outside of work? I normally focus on something which is radically different than the kind of programming I do at work. At work I develop windows and web applications, at home I focus on Mac OSX and mobile applications. At work I use ASP.NET and at home I play with Ruby on Rails.
The only code I usually do at home is to learn a new technology that may be useful for me in the future. I just write small code examples to learn how to use the new technology. Examples of this were WCF, WPF, LINQ, and ADO.Net Entity Framework. Having said that, right now I am working on mobile development with Android. I am also thinking of getting back into c++ with qt...moving away from .Net and MS.
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I like to strike an even balance on things.
8 hours for work
8 hours for sleep
8 hours for meThat's a pretty even balance don't you think. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
I have the same balance except 8 hrs for me goes to my family, and learning new stuff which includes writing code. ;P
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I have no doubt that "coding at home" (or coding outside of work or regular job) is the best way to improve your skills and learn new things. So what kind of coding do you do outside of work? I normally focus on something which is radically different than the kind of programming I do at work. At work I develop windows and web applications, at home I focus on Mac OSX and mobile applications. At work I use ASP.NET and at home I play with Ruby on Rails.
Yep - for all sorts of reasons. I developed some software for the Digital TV tuner I was using, to allow scheduling of recordings etc. I'm developing a commercial web application that one day will make my fortune (together with the novel I'm writing:)) I look at 'new stuff' - like I ran through the MVC videos, played with extension methods when they first appeared. IN the past I have also written a few games (Missile Command, a couple of text adventure engines, and the infamous PooperPig (tm) I usually (these days) stick to c# because I am too old to start learning brand new stuff - I already know a million and one languages so have little desire to learn another. But I do occasionally dabble.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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I have no doubt that "coding at home" (or coding outside of work or regular job) is the best way to improve your skills and learn new things. So what kind of coding do you do outside of work? I normally focus on something which is radically different than the kind of programming I do at work. At work I develop windows and web applications, at home I focus on Mac OSX and mobile applications. At work I use ASP.NET and at home I play with Ruby on Rails.
Let's see, 9 hours at work, 2 hours shower, eating and getting to and from work. Shoot, that leaves you another 8 hours easily to code. What you thought it was ment for sleeping? That's what the weekends are for besides coding ;) Well, at least that is the way it used to be for me.. Pretty much for decades ;)
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Coca-Cola In Israel..
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I have no doubt that "coding at home" (or coding outside of work or regular job) is the best way to improve your skills and learn new things. So what kind of coding do you do outside of work? I normally focus on something which is radically different than the kind of programming I do at work. At work I develop windows and web applications, at home I focus on Mac OSX and mobile applications. At work I use ASP.NET and at home I play with Ruby on Rails.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Do you "code at home"?
No.
Cheers, Vikram. (Got my troika of CCCs!)