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  3. What makes the iPhone so successful

What makes the iPhone so successful

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  • S stephen hazel

    Yeah, they seem pretty cool. But they've got a nailed down brand spankin new hardware setup to write code for. Not an api a kajillion layers up from hardware with a crapload of legacy apis. (I'm just guessin' here. But it's PRObably true.) But comparing to a blackberry IS fair game. And i still don't wanna lug around a cellular phonez... I'm a dad. I want peace. Leave me be.

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    BillWoodruff
    wrote on last edited by
    #32

    stephen.hazel wrote: But they've got a nailed down brand spankin new hardware setup to write code for. Not an api a kajillion layers up from hardware with a crapload of legacy apis. (I'm just guessin' here. But it's PRObably true.) Hi Stephen, I wonder what you makes you think this "probably true." Are you claiming that Cocoa and the Apple development tools, layered atop OS#xx Predator-of-the_Year flavor, which is layered atop the ghost of Carnegie-Mellon flavor Unix, as passed through the evolutionary stage of NeXt, have any less inherent complexity and depth-of-layers than Windows # ? With both Apple and Windows machines running on Intel cpus, using gpus with the same hardware, etc., where's the "spankin new hardware setup" ? best, Bill

    "Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844

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    • C Chris Maunder

      To me it's responsiveness. I've been playing with one for a couple of days and I've been trying to nail down exactly what it is that makes it so easy to use. High on the list is the personality of the UI. It's friendly. It's familiar. A compass looks like a compass, the time looks like an old-fashioned timer and is designed to be spun using your fingers. This is huge. Then I started comparing my touch-screen notebook with the iPhone. Scrolling through a browser page is very jerky. Resizing a page shows jerks and flashes. The laptop is a tablet, so spinning the screen 90 degrees makes the whole screen go dark then redraw, window by painful window. The iPhone scrolls perfectly smoothly. When you change orientation it morphs beautifully from landscape to portrait. When I need to zoom there absolutely zero lag in redrawing. Compared to my Blackberry, or a Windows Mobile device the contrast is night and day. I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

      cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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      BillWoodruff
      wrote on last edited by
      #33

      Hi Chris, I don't have an iPhone, don't need one, but I have friends, who are Windows programmers, that rave about them. I would not be willing to sacrifice "copy and paste," and running more than one application at a time (is that still true ?) for whatever the iPhone benefits are, but that's just a reflection of my lifestyle (I make almost no use of the telephone). And I'm just personally not into small devices : I want big screens, big keyboards, readability. Portability not important to me. Personal taste : perhaps related to age and eye-condition, as well as life-style ? I won't echo the other responses here I quite agree with, about "usability," etc., other than to say I think Marc Clifton (as usual) "nailed it" when he talked about "flow." The only thing I can add, that I think I haven't seen here yet on this thread, is the idea that the iPhone is a compelling, fascinating, as well as useful, toy ! It's power of "enchantment" seems, to me, to have spread beyond the usual circumference of the "Cult of Mac" in the way viruses spread. From my jaded perspective, the iPhone is the larval stage of much more interesting and useful devices to come. best, Bill

      "Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844

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      • B BillWoodruff

        stephen.hazel wrote: But they've got a nailed down brand spankin new hardware setup to write code for. Not an api a kajillion layers up from hardware with a crapload of legacy apis. (I'm just guessin' here. But it's PRObably true.) Hi Stephen, I wonder what you makes you think this "probably true." Are you claiming that Cocoa and the Apple development tools, layered atop OS#xx Predator-of-the_Year flavor, which is layered atop the ghost of Carnegie-Mellon flavor Unix, as passed through the evolutionary stage of NeXt, have any less inherent complexity and depth-of-layers than Windows # ? With both Apple and Windows machines running on Intel cpus, using gpus with the same hardware, etc., where's the "spankin new hardware setup" ? best, Bill

        "Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844

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        stephen hazel
        wrote on last edited by
        #34

        well, i'm not gonna argue with ya. i've never written no code for an iphone. it does surprise me that they put the full mac os on the thing...?? that's crazy. it's also crazy that the iphone os should have to handle cpus and gpus not on the device...??

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        • C Chris Maunder

          To me it's responsiveness. I've been playing with one for a couple of days and I've been trying to nail down exactly what it is that makes it so easy to use. High on the list is the personality of the UI. It's friendly. It's familiar. A compass looks like a compass, the time looks like an old-fashioned timer and is designed to be spun using your fingers. This is huge. Then I started comparing my touch-screen notebook with the iPhone. Scrolling through a browser page is very jerky. Resizing a page shows jerks and flashes. The laptop is a tablet, so spinning the screen 90 degrees makes the whole screen go dark then redraw, window by painful window. The iPhone scrolls perfectly smoothly. When you change orientation it morphs beautifully from landscape to portrait. When I need to zoom there absolutely zero lag in redrawing. Compared to my Blackberry, or a Windows Mobile device the contrast is night and day. I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

          cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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          Shog9 0
          wrote on last edited by
          #35

          Damn right, performance matters. I notice when my browser takes more than 60ms to open a new tab. I notice when launching an application doesn't provide me with at least some sort of feedback. And I damn well notice when opening an email doesn't immediately open that email. I've said this before, but MS dropped the ball with recommended UI practices, built Win32 to encourage a fundamentally flawed design, and we've all been paying for it since then: the primary job of any interactive application is to provide feedback for any and all user actions as quickly as possible, even if the action itself takes longer to complete. Just because you can let events pile up without responding to them doesn't mean you should ever do this intentionally...

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          • P Pete OHanlon

            Christian Graus wrote:

            You're claiming that Apple invented the only possible way to have a user friendly system ?

            No. I'm claiming that other companies are running scared of the mighty Apple when it comes to ease of use apps.

            "WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith

            As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.

            My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx

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            Shog9 0
            wrote on last edited by
            #36

            It's an attractive thought, but... I doubt it. I've been watching the Droid ads on TV recently - they demo the Android app-switching UI as though it were something to be proud of. It's a drop-down menu. Laziness or lack of creativity, but probably both.

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            • L Lost User

              ragnaroknrol wrote:

              Ballmer is crazy and could care less about his customers.

              FFS, it's couldn't care less, as in he care so little for them it is impossible for him to care less than he does now. Can't anyone fucking speak english on here any more?

              Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004

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              Chris Maunder
              wrote on last edited by
              #37

              Speaking of speaking English, I've just been watching season 2 of Underbelly and it's full of Kiwi's. They put on a het, they have dunner at sux o'clock. It's driving me nuts.

              cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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              • L Lost User

                Chris Maunder wrote:

                The iPhone scrolls perfectly smoothly. When you change orientation it morphs beautifully from landscape to portrait. When I need to zoom there absolutely zero lag in redrawing.

                You're almost describing World of Warcraft. You're comparing apples and pineapples here, keep in mind that Windows isn't meant as a platform for graphic-intense applications. We didn't rotate screens 90 degrees in Windows 3.1, simply because graphics weren't a sellingpoint. The demise of the ST and the Amiga confirm that. I also like to disagree on the point that Microsoft didn't spend any time on usability. They used to, and the ux_guide[^] is quite a handsome read. Apple's guidelines[^] are worth the read too, perhaps even moreso. (Why am I defending the desktop UI when it's not even under attack here?)

                Chris Maunder wrote:

                Compared to my Blackberry, or a Windows Mobile device the contrast is night and day.

                Apple was building a phone, where Microsoft is pushing a platform that's not limited to phones. In the end Apple will be considered the pioneer, as usual, and Microsoft as the cheap all-round alternative, as usual.

                Chris Maunder wrote:

                I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

                Yeah, we should do hallway usability-testing, and we should poka-yoke the database, and create unit-tests with 100% coverage. We don't, simply because it makes us cheaper than the competition. Everyone has an Office-lint, and we now have one too. That can't be too far of the mark, can it? (My apologies for the sarcasm, and my apologies for being blunt)

                I are Troll :suss:

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                Shog9 0
                wrote on last edited by
                #38

                Eddy Vluggen wrote:

                You're almost describing World of Warcraft

                Game UIs have long been a good benchmark for desktop UIs. You can often force someone to learn an obtuse desktop UI simply because they need it to do their job, but a game is entertainment - screw up the UI, and you've lost a customer.

                Eddy Vluggen wrote:

                Windows isn't meant as a platform for graphic-intense applications.

                It's been marketed as one for at least the past 14 years...

                Eddy Vluggen wrote:

                Microsoft is pushing a platform that's not limited to phones

                And this is a problem. Remember, the iPhone OS is built on much of the same code as OS/X - but the UI was tailored to the task it was intended for. It's the difference between batting with a Louisville Slugger... and doing so with a fence post.

                Eddy Vluggen wrote:

                Yeah, we should do hallway usability-testing, and we should poka-yoke the database, and create unit-tests with 100% coverage.

                None of that necessarily matters. 'Know how I recognize a bad UI, a really bad UI? When the person who wrote it can't make it work properly in a pinch. There's a lot of this going around... somewhere along the line, "dogfooding" morphed into "learning to avoid eating the poison bits".

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                • B BillWoodruff

                  Hi Chris, I don't have an iPhone, don't need one, but I have friends, who are Windows programmers, that rave about them. I would not be willing to sacrifice "copy and paste," and running more than one application at a time (is that still true ?) for whatever the iPhone benefits are, but that's just a reflection of my lifestyle (I make almost no use of the telephone). And I'm just personally not into small devices : I want big screens, big keyboards, readability. Portability not important to me. Personal taste : perhaps related to age and eye-condition, as well as life-style ? I won't echo the other responses here I quite agree with, about "usability," etc., other than to say I think Marc Clifton (as usual) "nailed it" when he talked about "flow." The only thing I can add, that I think I haven't seen here yet on this thread, is the idea that the iPhone is a compelling, fascinating, as well as useful, toy ! It's power of "enchantment" seems, to me, to have spread beyond the usual circumference of the "Cult of Mac" in the way viruses spread. From my jaded perspective, the iPhone is the larval stage of much more interesting and useful devices to come. best, Bill

                  "Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844

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                  Shog9 0
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #39

                  BillWoodruff wrote:

                  From my jaded perspective, the iPhone is the larval stage of much more interesting and useful devices to come.

                  That's my take as well. For years, phones - even so-called "smart phones" - seemed to be stuck in this circa-1990 UI rut. Basic menus, lousy task switching, bad fonts, poor use of screen real estate, awkward input devices... The iPhone showed us what was possible, even if they threw away some functionality and threw in a bunch of ugly hacks to make it work.

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                  • C Christian Graus

                    Marketting has to have something to do with it, but Apple stuff tends to be designed to be user friendly. In fact, reading your post, I think you just said the same thing.

                    Chris Maunder wrote:

                    I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

                    Every time I use Vista, I am reminded of how user hostile it is. I am hoping Weven is better. A friend of mine has an Android phone, and she can't work out how to use it. Is it really that hard ( that is, to write something as user friendly as the iPhone is ) ?

                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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                    leckey 0
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #40

                    I soooo agree with the marketing! How many new phones come out with new ads every few days? Who can remember the last generation of LG phone or its color? You hear "iPhone" and people think of it as one phone, no matter how many upgrades.

                    Back in the blog beatch! http://CraptasticNation.blogspot.com/[^]

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                    • B BillWoodruff

                      Hi Chris, I don't have an iPhone, don't need one, but I have friends, who are Windows programmers, that rave about them. I would not be willing to sacrifice "copy and paste," and running more than one application at a time (is that still true ?) for whatever the iPhone benefits are, but that's just a reflection of my lifestyle (I make almost no use of the telephone). And I'm just personally not into small devices : I want big screens, big keyboards, readability. Portability not important to me. Personal taste : perhaps related to age and eye-condition, as well as life-style ? I won't echo the other responses here I quite agree with, about "usability," etc., other than to say I think Marc Clifton (as usual) "nailed it" when he talked about "flow." The only thing I can add, that I think I haven't seen here yet on this thread, is the idea that the iPhone is a compelling, fascinating, as well as useful, toy ! It's power of "enchantment" seems, to me, to have spread beyond the usual circumference of the "Cult of Mac" in the way viruses spread. From my jaded perspective, the iPhone is the larval stage of much more interesting and useful devices to come. best, Bill

                      "Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844

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                      Chris Maunder
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #41

                      The iPhone, as a device, is neither here nor there for me. It's a chunk of circuit board wrapped in a pretentious skin and sold at way too high a price. The touchscreen works perfectly, I will give it that, but it gets warm when you make it do anything, it's battery life sucks, and it uses that aweful propriatary iPod connector. It's the concept of designing a PDA that works with you, instead of works it's own way and expects you to learn, that grabs me. Beyond that, and something I completely forgot to mention, was the ecosystem that surrounds it. The iPhone automatically syncs with my computer (via iTunes) and I can use it as a remote for my AppleTV. I make a change in one place (movie, photo, MP3) and everything has it. The blackberry is brilliant with its Exchange integration, but can anyone name RIM's multimedia management application? Me neither, and I've used a blackberry for years. As well, the AppStore has, I think, taken many people by surprise. There have been apps for Windows Mobile for years and years, but is there a market? Same with RIM. But within an hour of having the iPhone I was downloading games and gadgets that were a) fun, and b) amazingly creative and useful. And then there's the core UI of the iPhone OS itself. It just works. It doesn't multitask, which would cause problems for me because I'm forever flipping between email and my calendar, or I'll listen to music then pop onto the (crappy) blackberry browser to check the site. That is not going to happen with an iPhobe, but what does happen is you open an app, use it, close it and switch to another, close it and switch back and everything is so quick and smooth that, unless you actually want to have two things running at once, you don't even notice. I'm not actually expecting too much more from Apple. They've had a long time to innovate MacOS X and frankly it's nothing magical. The iPhone is revolutionary because it changed the way we think about Mobile apps. I think someone else will now come along and take the ball and run.

                      cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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                      • P Pete OHanlon

                        Windows 7 is streets ahead of Vista, give it a try.

                        Christian Graus wrote:

                        . Is it really that hard ( that is, to write something as user friendly as the iPhone is ) ?

                        I suspect that company's are scared that they might violate a patent or two.

                        "WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith

                        As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.

                        My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx

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                        Chris Losinger
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #42

                        Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

                        Windows 7 is streets ahead of Vista

                        in what way ? the toolbar ?

                        image processing toolkits | batch image processing

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                        • S Shog9 0

                          It's an attractive thought, but... I doubt it. I've been watching the Droid ads on TV recently - they demo the Android app-switching UI as though it were something to be proud of. It's a drop-down menu. Laziness or lack of creativity, but probably both.

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                          Johnno74
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #43

                          the point of the app switching demo is not how they do it, its the fact that it does it at all. The iphone is like DOS. runs one app at a time. press the home button and the app is sent a close notification and then gets 7 seconds (afaik) to save whatever state it wants and exit before the OS kills the process.

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                          • C Christian Graus

                            Marketting has to have something to do with it, but Apple stuff tends to be designed to be user friendly. In fact, reading your post, I think you just said the same thing.

                            Chris Maunder wrote:

                            I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

                            Every time I use Vista, I am reminded of how user hostile it is. I am hoping Weven is better. A friend of mine has an Android phone, and she can't work out how to use it. Is it really that hard ( that is, to write something as user friendly as the iPhone is ) ?

                            Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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                            Gandalf_TheWhite
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #44

                            Christian Graus wrote:

                            Vista, I am reminded of how user hostile it is

                            :laugh: So true.That was shot(Six) :cool: But MS really worked well with Weven. Just give it try. It will be a feel good scenario, whenever you remember your days with Vista.

                            Believe Yourself™

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                            • C Chris Maunder

                              To me it's responsiveness. I've been playing with one for a couple of days and I've been trying to nail down exactly what it is that makes it so easy to use. High on the list is the personality of the UI. It's friendly. It's familiar. A compass looks like a compass, the time looks like an old-fashioned timer and is designed to be spun using your fingers. This is huge. Then I started comparing my touch-screen notebook with the iPhone. Scrolling through a browser page is very jerky. Resizing a page shows jerks and flashes. The laptop is a tablet, so spinning the screen 90 degrees makes the whole screen go dark then redraw, window by painful window. The iPhone scrolls perfectly smoothly. When you change orientation it morphs beautifully from landscape to portrait. When I need to zoom there absolutely zero lag in redrawing. Compared to my Blackberry, or a Windows Mobile device the contrast is night and day. I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

                              cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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                              Gandalf_TheWhite
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #45

                              Completely Agree with you. For the Touch sensitivity/responsiveness : They have made a MASTER PIECE The Touch seems reading your mind. Means it does exactly what you want. It want jerk the edges and objects. Perfection at it best. And that makes them different from the others. :thumbsup: Though there are some thumb down scenarios where iPhone S**** No Bluetooth data transfer. :doh: Poor Battery Life. :zzz: A HOT metal brick after talking for long period. :mad: No Data Transfer without iTunes :( They must have to concentrate for the above things.

                              Believe Yourself™

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                              • C Chris Maunder

                                Speaking of speaking English, I've just been watching season 2 of Underbelly and it's full of Kiwi's. They put on a het, they have dunner at sux o'clock. It's driving me nuts.

                                cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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                                Johnno74
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #46

                                You realise that the main character (Terry Clarke, mr asia) actually *was* a kiwi, don't you? Man its shocking how you aussies claim kiwis as your own once they cross the ditch - for example: - Crowded House - Sam Neil - Fred Hollows - Phar lap - Russell Crowe Actually, you can keep Russell Crowe

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                                • C Chris Maunder

                                  To me it's responsiveness. I've been playing with one for a couple of days and I've been trying to nail down exactly what it is that makes it so easy to use. High on the list is the personality of the UI. It's friendly. It's familiar. A compass looks like a compass, the time looks like an old-fashioned timer and is designed to be spun using your fingers. This is huge. Then I started comparing my touch-screen notebook with the iPhone. Scrolling through a browser page is very jerky. Resizing a page shows jerks and flashes. The laptop is a tablet, so spinning the screen 90 degrees makes the whole screen go dark then redraw, window by painful window. The iPhone scrolls perfectly smoothly. When you change orientation it morphs beautifully from landscape to portrait. When I need to zoom there absolutely zero lag in redrawing. Compared to my Blackberry, or a Windows Mobile device the contrast is night and day. I think we as software developers, and Microsoft and RIM as the authors of OSs, need to go into the room of mirrors and have a good, long look at ourselves.

                                  cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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                                  Lee Humphries
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #47

                                  Yes and No. Basically Apple do a substantially better job at the UI than just about anyone else. But then they go and sit on their arse, get arbitrary, and also refuse to compromise of their quirkier 'standards' even when everyone else can see that they suck. Look how long it took them to get past the one button mouse. But from a smartphone perspective the iPhone is actually a massive yawn. Does it drive mobile broadband usage? Nup, it doesn't even register on the charts it's that small. What really drives mobile broadband usage is all of the people with 3G dongles. Is it technologically advanced? Nup, not even with its initial launch. It is however a very good assembly of parts. Is it good business for the Telcos? Nup, the cost of acquiring an iPhone customer has meant that most Telcos that run it get substantially less of a return than other smartphones. Some of them have even been running at a loss (the idiots bought into the hype). The AppStore is a great concept - that Apple didn't invent. And just one application running at a time? Come on! Basically, with the iPhone, Apple cleaned up a lot of the UI nastiness around mobile phones in one go. And then promptly proceeded to do nothing more. Like so many of the other Apple products the iPhone is the Rolls Royce of Smart phones - Over-priced, over-rated, and over-taken (already). The real movers and shakers in the smartphone market are Samsung and hTc, watch what they are doing if you actually want to get ahead.

                                  I just love Koalas - they go great with Bacon.

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                                  • C Christian Graus

                                    Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

                                    Windows 7 is streets ahead of Vista, give it a try.

                                    I will, I am intending on buying a Weven notebook next time I am in the US ( b.c it's half the price of buying it here ).

                                    Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

                                    I suspect that company's are scared that they might violate a patent or two.

                                    You're claiming that Apple invented the only possible way to have a user friendly system ? I don't mean that things have to look exactly like the iPhone, although I do think it's worth asking why Apple were the ones who were able to design something so usable. I mean, why can't Microsoft take the time to design something that's easy to use ?

                                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

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                                    Mark_Wallace
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #48

                                    Christian Graus wrote:

                                    I mean, why can't Microsoft take the time to design something that's easy to use ?

                                    Notepad. Touche. I win.

                                    I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!

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                                    • C Chris Maunder

                                      Speaking of speaking English, I've just been watching season 2 of Underbelly and it's full of Kiwi's. They put on a het, they have dunner at sux o'clock. It's driving me nuts.

                                      cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP

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                                      Lost User
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #49

                                      Chris Maunder wrote:

                                      It's driving me nuts.

                                      Don't you mean nots? When you back for our Sydney beer? I reckon I can get Josh and Ashley there again.

                                      Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004

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                                      • J Jorgen Andersson

                                        Just bought one for my Wife, her answer to the question is a lot shorter. It's cute and pretty and does what she wants it to do! I like your answer better.

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                                        SimonRigby
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #50

                                        Jörgen Andersson wrote:

                                        It's cute and pretty and does what she wants it to do!

                                        Sounds like the iPhone .. grin

                                        The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.

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                                        • R ragnaroknrol

                                          Christian Graus wrote:

                                          I mean, why can't Microsoft take the time to design something that's easy to use ?

                                          MS is the 800lb gorilla. They were so used to simply forcing people to use their products that they lost the fire needed to do things in simple, elegant ways. They used to be different. But when they became the defacto OS of the world they lost the need to fight or even innovate much. The business world liked stability and familiarity. Only now that the business world is being populated by people that like new things, like intuitive design and want speed are they seeing the need to get off their duffs and move. They've got divisions that are as good at marketing as Apple. They have divisions as good at making fans as Apple, but these divisions aren't really in charge of the big stuff. (X-box is the noteworthy one) Weven is a good step in the right direction. But until ALL their people stop thinking that they don't need to listen, they aren't infalliable and they need to compete to survive, they are in trouble. They can't expand out of their market with Google and Apple dominating 2 of the markets they want and Sony and Nintendo fighting them in another. Heck, the biggest threat to the iPhone is a Google product. When Microsoft is called an "also-ran" in a market something is wrong. So why can't they do it? Cause they have a corporate culture that says they don't have to. They fix that and we might be really impressed.

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                                          SimonRigby
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #51

                                          ragnaroknrol wrote:

                                          They were so used to simply forcing people to use their products that they lost the fire needed to do things in simple, elegant ways. They used to be different. But when they became the defacto OS of the world they lost the need to fight or even innovate much. The business world liked stability and familiarity.

                                          Very true. Why do you need to respond to user demand if they're going to buy the thing anyway. The iPhone is clearly devised with Joe Average consumer in mind. So did MS (or others) miss the boat a bit in seeing the switch from corporate to personal use (or more accurately how much this switch would mean to the bottom line?)

                                          The only thing unpredictable about me is just how predictable I'm going to be.

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