A reply to the WH letter

Lost User

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Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap

Chris Hambleton

FYI, I didn't write the letter, I re-posted it from Boortz.com... Can you cite specific examples of how Bush has "destroyed the economy"?? Most economic indicators have been on their way up for the last 2 quarters. Do you have specific examples, or are you just quoting from what you read in the managed newspapers/media? Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Usually, raising taxes hurts the economy -- has he done that? You can apply this same argument to Clinton -- he ran around saying that he had created this great economy. Granted, the economy was good during his presidency, but what had HE directly done to help it? Have you thought that maybe the economy isn't really controlled by the government as much as the population and it's confidence? Everyone's concerned about the price of gas going up b/c of the war with Iraq -- but most likely, the prices will drop after the US starts winning b/c of increased confidence. These same things happened before and after the Gulf war -- the prices went up before the US intervened, and dropped during and after the conflict... Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? No. Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? (like their freedom to breath) "If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." -- Jeremiah 18:7-10 (God, commenting on the value of the United Nations)

Chris Losinger

i love when people ask this one: Chris Hambleton wrote: Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Usually, raising taxes hurts the economy -- has he done that? he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. this would at least help convince people that there's hope that their own company isn't going to end up folding because of shady accounting practices. Chris Hambleton wrote: Have you thought that maybe the economy isn't really controlled by the government as much as the population and it's confidence? then the govt should do something to restore that confidence. see above for one example. Chris Hambleton wrote: Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? At least one or two of them are, yes. -c

Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw

Smaller Animals Software

Anthony Roach

Chris Hambleton wrote: Are they citizens of the US? No. true Chris Hambleton wrote: Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Yes if they are being held by American troops or if they are in American territories they are subject to the laws of said territory Chris Hambleton wrote: Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. Yes as they are held by American troops ( I'm not sure who owns the land ) but if they are prosoners of war then they are subject to both American prisoner of war laws and things like the geneva convention. If they are not prisoners of war they are subject to American law as they are being held by the Americans Chris Hambleton wrote: Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? No ones talking of freedom they are talking petty things like proof and trials. If you have them use them. (like their freedom to breath) It's just so easy to tell your a christian. Just another Hypocritical Murderer waiting for a chance to kill someone in the name of a book An before u start no I'm not a christian and no I'm not of any other religion. I'm probably an atheist but the whole things just too dull for me to even bother faking taking sides on one way or the other. And yes I know I'm doomed but then I like getting drunk. It's fun. In that respect I'm in the same boat as anna as far u'r lot are concerned. Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Paul Riley

Chris Hambleton wrote: Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? (like their freedom to breath) Whilst I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment here, can you honestly say that you believe even 80% of these 2000 people are terrorists? Interesting that you complain about people buying everything you read in the press and yet you happily accept this and you gladly accept that the Taliban and al-Qaeda are one entity which is patently untrue. If you chose to harbor a murderer and was caught, would you be treated the same as the murderer? And I've yet to see a good argument why the Taliban don't fall under the protections of the Geneva Convention. For that matter, even those who don't (and I do see a convincing argument why al-Qaeda don't fall under the GC) should be treated as such until their non-eligibility is confirmed by a committee of three independant officials. I do see your point, treat the terrorists however you want, but it strikes me as strange that no attempt is being made to distinguish between a terrorist, a political prisoner (avoid the term POW as there never was a war) and someone who might actually be innocent. Paul Why don't you take a good look at yourself and describe what you see - Led Zeppelin, Misty Mountain Hop

Jim A Johnson

Thanks for the rational reply, Joker. The rabid right-wingers in this lounge get tiresome. Too bad that they don't understand that rights taken away from anyone are taken away from them, too.

Chris Hambleton

Hi Chris, I know we differ on this stuff... but hopefully neither of us takes it personally.. :) I completely agree with pt#1 -- and from what I can tell Bush and the Justice Dept are; they're trying and arresting these CEOs/officers that are breaking the law. It's going to take time to take out the garbage... Pt #2 -- you probably won't agree with this, but this is where the war comes in: short-term, wars decrease confidence -- long term (after the war's won) confidence will increase without the threat of a wacko running around with nukes who hates Western countries. If Saddam wasn't threatening the US, he'd be threatening Europe or others... How would confidence be if we had an administration that does nothing but talk when our property/people is attacked or threatened? And I'm not talking about former administrations here. What if we take a wait-and-see attitude on Saddam and he kills 1 million+ citizens? Talk about the stock-market tanking on that one... About the 2 citizens, I have a big problem with how they've handled that -- not because they're terrorists, but because they're US citizens, and therefore they DO have rights that non-US terrorists do not. These two must have a trial by jury with good representation, just like if a US-citizen committed any other crime. "If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." -- Jeremiah 18:7-10 (God, commenting on the value of the United Nations)

Shog9 0

Excellent reply!

Shog9 ------

No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...

Fazlul Kabir

Chris Hambleton wrote: are you just quoting from what you read in the managed newspapers/media? The same can probably be said about your source of info.. Neal Boortz, who is a very biased libertarian radio talk show host. Corerct me if I'm wrong..

KaRl

Chris Hambleton wrote: Would you rather have these terrorists free with their rights and causing others to lose theirs? (like their freedom to breath) The < ironic>good old< /ironic> doctrine, "the only good Indian is the dead Indian", once again Some of those that work forces Are the same that burn crosses ! Killing In The Name/Rage Against The Machine

Chris Losinger

Chris Hambleton wrote: What if we take a wait-and-see attitude on Saddam you mean like we've done for the past 10 years? he hasn't killed a million of us yet. why stop with Iraq? there are plenty of other countries we officially Don't Like. let's go take care of business - just like Russia and Israel do. let's show them what our big shiny tanks can do. that'll surely stop them from wanting to kill us in ways we can't defend against. our big shiny tanks aren't going to stop arabs from deciding that the US is a big soft fat target that deserves to be hit, though other things might (things only a cowardly america-hating liberal would even mention). so while we're over there, giving arabs more reason to hate us, they can very well be over here poking holes in our soft white underbelly. no, they can't touch us militarily, but they aren't fighting our military. ask the DC police if they think they can catch all the terrorist threats that might pop up. do you have that much faith in our own civil defenses ? i don't. as you saw with the furor over Falwell's inane comments, the rest of the world is just waiting for something to send it into a frenzy. i feel that bush is leading this country into something truly horrible. -c

Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw

Smaller Animals Software

Shog9 0

Anthony Roach wrote: It's just so easy to tell your a christian. Just another Hypocritical Murderer waiting for a chance to kill someone in the name of a book That's great, Anthony. Really drove your point home with that one. Just stating your arguments wouldn't have made you seem depressed and bitter enough, i agree.

Shog9 ------

No one's immune now, from a world of problems No one's exempt now, from a world of pain That's the way that it goes when you're down here with the rest of us...

Anthony Roach

:-D Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Richard Stringer

Chris Hambleton wrote: Also, what can the President do other than raise/lower taxes & regulation? Actually the President can't raise or lower taxes. That function is left to Congress. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

Richard Stringer

Chris Losinger wrote: he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. this would at least help convince people that there's hope that their own company isn't going to end up folding because of shady accounting practices. And just where in the Constitution does it give the President the power to create/change/enforce laws. I thought that this power lies with Congress and the Judiciary branch. Of course I could be wrong. Richard When I reflect upon the number of disagreeable people who I know have gone to better world, I am moved to lead a different life. Mark Twain- Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar

Lost User

Chris Losinger wrote: he could put some teeth into corporate accounting rules. We need laws not rules and initiation of new laws would come from the legislature not the executive branch. The executive branch (in this case) enforces the laws and have been doing so with Enron, AA, MCI, AOL, ImClone, etc... What more should they be doing? So far everybody sentenced is getting the max allowed by current law. In addition, I think most of our economy's problems stem from the DOT.COM bust and additional government spending due to post September 11th security initiatives. IMO very little of the current issues revolve around corporate accounting scandals.

Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap

Chris Losinger

the president appoints the people in charge of the SEC. the SEC certainly has the authority to make life difficult for companies who don't follow the rules. -c

Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw

Smaller Animals Software

Joker

Mike Mullikin wrote: --------->Soapbox --------->Spellchecker --------->History --------->Real world One more: -----> Truth that I decided to ignore because it is not convenient for me :laugh:

Chris Losinger

Mike Mullikin wrote: We need laws not rules and initiation of new laws would come from the legislature not the executive branch. yes, of course. still, the president is able to command congress to start working on this or that legislation (they don't have to listen, but they usually do). Mike Mullikin wrote: In addition, I think most of our economy's problems stem from the DOT.COM bust you can't deny that the problems with Enron, WorldCom, Xerox, etc. had an effect. maybe that was all unpreventable, maybe not. but the president is nearly silent on the issue. maybe he forgets why his daddy lost in '92. -c

Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life. -- George Bernard Shaw

Smaller Animals Software

Joker

Chris Hambleton wrote: Concerning the prisoners and their rights: Are they citizens of the US? No. Are non-US citizens entitled to US rights? No. Are these prisoners therefore entitled to US rights? No. I guess it will be OK for you if another country decided to take away rights from US prisoners. Don't tell me americans have never been captured elsewhere. ;P I could argue other things with you, may be another time.