Improving your job prospects
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What I was really getting at was skills, or that sort of things.
Well then you're really going to find my post below pointless. :)
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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You'll get a lot of good nuts and bolts advice from people here much like those who have already responded. I'd like to add a slightly different angle in addition to (not in place of) the basics of a good job search: be memorable and desirable. No matter how highly focussed or relevant, after the first 10 resumes they all look pretty much the same and the hiring manager's eyes are glazing over. Not to mention the fact that the person reviewing the resumes may well be a programmer who would certainly rather be coding than looking at all these resumes. While you certianly have to back it up with credible indications that you're competent for the job at hand, that does little good if you just blend in with the background noise. Like most any endeavor in life, if you want to succeed you have to be noticed, and you also have to show up on the radar as someone they want. Let's take the second one first. Yeah, yeah. Lots of guys know have N years in the XYZ technology. And everybody's skills look impressive on paper (unless they're completely clueless). Yawn. Assuming you can do the job, let's get down to the more important stuff. Are you someone I could actually stand for more than an hour if I was working with you? Would I be tempted to buy you a beer or beat you over the head with a chair at the end of the obligatory deadline all-nighters? Do you share common interests or perspectives with the guys on the team? In other words, are you "one of us?" If I don't see some positive indications of this, your resume is never going to make it off of my desk, except to hit the trash can. After all, I have 573 others underneath yours, and I'm pretty sure most of them can code, too. The memorable part fits in nicely with the above. The problem with most resumes, and an excellent advantage to you if you know how to exploit it, is that everyone churns out the same dull, conservative, cookie cutter resumes that the job sites all tell you to prepare. That may seem professional, but to a certain degree from a career enhancement perspective it's just plain dumb. If you want to stand out in a crowd (and that's the goal - to stand out enough to get the interview), you're not going to succeed by looking exactly like everyone else. In fact, following that advice ensures that you won't stand out in a crowd. Let me give you a few examples from personal experience. For many years, I had a cartoon at the bottom of my resume. Oh, but how the recruiters freaked out! Nonetheless, I stuck to my guns. The cartoon was of two caveme
Christopher Duncan wrote:
TLDR?
The length of your post made you stand out from the rest, so I'm gonna have to say "no". :)
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Yeah, I know, but still... what's next - a link to my cat's blog? Doesn't belong on a resume.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
Yeah, I know, but still... what's next - a link to my cat's blog? Doesn't belong on a resume.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v serverpeterchen wrote:
what's next - a link to my cat's blog?
:laugh: Depends on what you cat is blogging about. Does your cat blog good things about you?
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Yeah, I know, but still... what's next - a link to my cat's blog? Doesn't belong on a resume.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
TLDR?
The length of your post made you stand out from the rest, so I'm gonna have to say "no". :)
:laugh:
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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You'll get a lot of good nuts and bolts advice from people here much like those who have already responded. I'd like to add a slightly different angle in addition to (not in place of) the basics of a good job search: be memorable and desirable. No matter how highly focussed or relevant, after the first 10 resumes they all look pretty much the same and the hiring manager's eyes are glazing over. Not to mention the fact that the person reviewing the resumes may well be a programmer who would certainly rather be coding than looking at all these resumes. While you certianly have to back it up with credible indications that you're competent for the job at hand, that does little good if you just blend in with the background noise. Like most any endeavor in life, if you want to succeed you have to be noticed, and you also have to show up on the radar as someone they want. Let's take the second one first. Yeah, yeah. Lots of guys know have N years in the XYZ technology. And everybody's skills look impressive on paper (unless they're completely clueless). Yawn. Assuming you can do the job, let's get down to the more important stuff. Are you someone I could actually stand for more than an hour if I was working with you? Would I be tempted to buy you a beer or beat you over the head with a chair at the end of the obligatory deadline all-nighters? Do you share common interests or perspectives with the guys on the team? In other words, are you "one of us?" If I don't see some positive indications of this, your resume is never going to make it off of my desk, except to hit the trash can. After all, I have 573 others underneath yours, and I'm pretty sure most of them can code, too. The memorable part fits in nicely with the above. The problem with most resumes, and an excellent advantage to you if you know how to exploit it, is that everyone churns out the same dull, conservative, cookie cutter resumes that the job sites all tell you to prepare. That may seem professional, but to a certain degree from a career enhancement perspective it's just plain dumb. If you want to stand out in a crowd (and that's the goal - to stand out enough to get the interview), you're not going to succeed by looking exactly like everyone else. In fact, following that advice ensures that you won't stand out in a crowd. Let me give you a few examples from personal experience. For many years, I had a cartoon at the bottom of my resume. Oh, but how the recruiters freaked out! Nonetheless, I stuck to my guns. The cartoon was of two caveme
Absolutely awesome response! I will unashamedly borrow (steal?) some of your ideas! Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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You'll get a lot of good nuts and bolts advice from people here much like those who have already responded. I'd like to add a slightly different angle in addition to (not in place of) the basics of a good job search: be memorable and desirable. No matter how highly focussed or relevant, after the first 10 resumes they all look pretty much the same and the hiring manager's eyes are glazing over. Not to mention the fact that the person reviewing the resumes may well be a programmer who would certainly rather be coding than looking at all these resumes. While you certianly have to back it up with credible indications that you're competent for the job at hand, that does little good if you just blend in with the background noise. Like most any endeavor in life, if you want to succeed you have to be noticed, and you also have to show up on the radar as someone they want. Let's take the second one first. Yeah, yeah. Lots of guys know have N years in the XYZ technology. And everybody's skills look impressive on paper (unless they're completely clueless). Yawn. Assuming you can do the job, let's get down to the more important stuff. Are you someone I could actually stand for more than an hour if I was working with you? Would I be tempted to buy you a beer or beat you over the head with a chair at the end of the obligatory deadline all-nighters? Do you share common interests or perspectives with the guys on the team? In other words, are you "one of us?" If I don't see some positive indications of this, your resume is never going to make it off of my desk, except to hit the trash can. After all, I have 573 others underneath yours, and I'm pretty sure most of them can code, too. The memorable part fits in nicely with the above. The problem with most resumes, and an excellent advantage to you if you know how to exploit it, is that everyone churns out the same dull, conservative, cookie cutter resumes that the job sites all tell you to prepare. That may seem professional, but to a certain degree from a career enhancement perspective it's just plain dumb. If you want to stand out in a crowd (and that's the goal - to stand out enough to get the interview), you're not going to succeed by looking exactly like everyone else. In fact, following that advice ensures that you won't stand out in a crowd. Let me give you a few examples from personal experience. For many years, I had a cartoon at the bottom of my resume. Oh, but how the recruiters freaked out! Nonetheless, I stuck to my guns. The cartoon was of two caveme
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Assuming you can do the job, let's get down to the more important stuff. Are you someone I could actually stand for more than an hour if I was working with you? Would I be tempted to buy you a beer or beat you over the head with a chair at the end of the obligatory deadline all-nighters? Do you share common interests or perspectives with the guys on the team? In other words, are you "one of us?"
Funny, I was involved in interviewing a lot at my previous job (believe it or not I interviewed someone on my very last day with the company - after I sent the report, I submitted my card and we left for the good-buy beer) and actually only one person in our team cared about that stuff. The rest of us just looked for people who perform well on the job and don't introduce too many bugs.
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Absolutely awesome response! I will unashamedly borrow (steal?) some of your ideas! Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
Glad to be of service. :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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In addition: 1) Good quality paper rather than the cheap stuff, and a first class stamp or hand delivered. Both show that you care about the presentation to the company, rather than looking like a bulk mail shot. 2) NO SPELLING MISTAKES! 3) Get someone else to read it before you submit. You will read what you meant to write, they will read what you wrote. You don't have to take the advice, but it can elimiate the "sentance that ended in mid 4) Don't include "weird" hobbies - if you are a lay preacher, keep it to yourself. Remember that they will have to work with you - because they will remember. 5) Make sure your MySpace / FaceBook etc. pages are not incriminating!
All those who believe in psycho kinesis, raise my hand.
OriginalGriff wrote:
- Make sure your Stay the **** away from cr@p like MySpace / FaceBook etc. pages are not incriminating!
There. Much better.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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OriginalGriff wrote:
MySpace / FaceBook etc. pages are not incriminating
Is it a good idea to mention one's Facebook / MySpace account in a CV at all?
There are only 10 types of people in this world — those who understand binary, and those who don't.
modified on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 12:28 PM
Abhinav S wrote:
Is it a good idea to mention one's Facebook / MySpace account in a CV at all?
No, but would you want to work for someone who can't press a "Search" button?
All those who believe in psycho kinesis, raise my hand.
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LinkedIn recommendations? Man! I've seen glowing recommendations for ex-colleagues of mine who were complete numpties. Had considered getting recommendations for myself there, but I though if everyone can get a good recommendation, what's the point?
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LinkedIn recommendations? Man! I've seen glowing recommendations for ex-colleagues of mine who were complete numpties. Had considered getting recommendations for myself there, but I though if everyone can get a good recommendation, what's the point?
I agree, but when you combine recommendations on Linked In along with a good resume, and a good interview it all starts to come together as a package that just enhances the total view of 'you' to a potential hiring manager. I think 'glowing recommendations who are complete numpties' ends up getting weeded out in the end for the most part :)
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What do you guys recommend to increase your job prospects? Some companies look at certs, or a magic number of years of experience, etc.
Tough call on some things. But I get lots of jobs with the following. I'm a contractor so I usually know ahead of time when my job is going to end. CERTS I do have a cert, but not all certs are equal. You should ask around about specific certs you are thinking about. Mine gets me jobs. Oracle OCP DBA. Unless you've got a lot going for you, any training you've had is something the people on the other side of the table won't have to pay for. Naturally the cert won't impress the hiring guy if he's tech savvy, but you have to get by a lot of people before you see him and those people pay attention to Certs. Pretty much because nobody gets fired for getting the certified guy into an interview. I do also have experience, which is what they look for more than anything else. Experience trumps all with the actual manager. But experience doesn't cut it with the HR gate keepers. If I were hiring it would be experience and then everything else, but I'm not. I also don't tell all my experience or they think I'm too old. I stop at the 15 year mark, which is arbitrary. RESUMES My resume has sections. Most people who read a resume won't get beyond the first 3 inches. So the top is targeted to the specific job I've sent the resume to. Top section: summary, about 7 lines. This indicates my 'best foot forward' of both hard and soft skills. One or two sentences each. Preferably one. Next section: summary of my technical skills. I trim this down for every resume. Turns out that hiring managers don't want a generalist, they want a specialist. Sure a generalist is better; but they don't believe you if you claim to be one. So I rip out anything that isn't relevant to the job I'm applying for for that version of the resume. Always working from a master copy of course. I always pretend to have a niche. Next section: professional experience, starting now and going back. Every title is a description of what I did, how I would title it rather than the title I walked around with at the time. In a few cases, my title actually reflected what I did. I never use the word "Specialist" in any title that is less than eight years old. Specialist is a word indicating "low paid and inexperienced" to the HR people. In each case I try to put numbers to the statements. If I would otherwise say "I was given responsibility of the company's reporting structure" I would include "consisting of 500 plus reports". If I say "experience as a database programmer" then I say how many years, or I say ho
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I recommend highlighting relevant experience when submitting a resume/cv to an employer. It is a bit of extra work modifying your resume per submission but it has help me in the past. Also, I've found some employers like to see a cover letter along with a resume; I've also found some hate them :).
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
I won't even look at a resume that doesn't come with a cover letter. It just comes across like a bulk mail shoot if there isn't a somewhat tailored cover letter attached. Also, I'm not sure why people send email resumes with the cover letter as an attachment - if you are emailing a resume, the email body IS the cover letter.
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Tough call on some things. But I get lots of jobs with the following. I'm a contractor so I usually know ahead of time when my job is going to end. CERTS I do have a cert, but not all certs are equal. You should ask around about specific certs you are thinking about. Mine gets me jobs. Oracle OCP DBA. Unless you've got a lot going for you, any training you've had is something the people on the other side of the table won't have to pay for. Naturally the cert won't impress the hiring guy if he's tech savvy, but you have to get by a lot of people before you see him and those people pay attention to Certs. Pretty much because nobody gets fired for getting the certified guy into an interview. I do also have experience, which is what they look for more than anything else. Experience trumps all with the actual manager. But experience doesn't cut it with the HR gate keepers. If I were hiring it would be experience and then everything else, but I'm not. I also don't tell all my experience or they think I'm too old. I stop at the 15 year mark, which is arbitrary. RESUMES My resume has sections. Most people who read a resume won't get beyond the first 3 inches. So the top is targeted to the specific job I've sent the resume to. Top section: summary, about 7 lines. This indicates my 'best foot forward' of both hard and soft skills. One or two sentences each. Preferably one. Next section: summary of my technical skills. I trim this down for every resume. Turns out that hiring managers don't want a generalist, they want a specialist. Sure a generalist is better; but they don't believe you if you claim to be one. So I rip out anything that isn't relevant to the job I'm applying for for that version of the resume. Always working from a master copy of course. I always pretend to have a niche. Next section: professional experience, starting now and going back. Every title is a description of what I did, how I would title it rather than the title I walked around with at the time. In a few cases, my title actually reflected what I did. I never use the word "Specialist" in any title that is less than eight years old. Specialist is a word indicating "low paid and inexperienced" to the HR people. In each case I try to put numbers to the statements. If I would otherwise say "I was given responsibility of the company's reporting structure" I would include "consisting of 500 plus reports". If I say "experience as a database programmer" then I say how many years, or I say ho
This should really be a blog post or something so that people can find it, instead of being relegated to page 10,000 in this forum.
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This should really be a blog post or something so that people can find it, instead of being relegated to page 10,000 in this forum.
True. I'm not sure where to hang it. I wonder if I should explore doing an article for Code Project on job hunting?
_____________________________ Every app cloud has a user whining.
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In addition: 1) Good quality paper rather than the cheap stuff, and a first class stamp or hand delivered. Both show that you care about the presentation to the company, rather than looking like a bulk mail shot. 2) NO SPELLING MISTAKES! 3) Get someone else to read it before you submit. You will read what you meant to write, they will read what you wrote. You don't have to take the advice, but it can elimiate the "sentance that ended in mid 4) Don't include "weird" hobbies - if you are a lay preacher, keep it to yourself. Remember that they will have to work with you - because they will remember. 5) Make sure your MySpace / FaceBook etc. pages are not incriminating!
All those who believe in psycho kinesis, raise my hand.
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...you mean, "sentence," right?
That's the least of that lines problems! :laugh:
All those who believe in psycho kinesis, raise my hand.
