iiNet wins piracy court case
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iiNet slays Hollywood in landmark piracy case[^] "The giants of the film industry have lost their case against ISP iiNet in a landmark judgment handed down in the Federal Court today. The decision had the potential to impact internet users and the internet industry profoundly as it sets a legal precedent surrounding how much ISPs are required to do to prevent customers from downloading movies and other content illegally. But after an on-and-off eight-week trial that examined whether iiNet authorised customers to download pirated movies, Justice Dennis Cowdroy found that the ISP was not liable for the downloading habits of its customers. ... iiNet argued that it was not required by law to act on ‘‘mere allegations’’ of copyright infringement, that customers were innocent until proven guilty in court, and that the case was like suing the electricity company for things people do with their electricity." Sanity prevails, though it will be interesting to see what happens once the decision is inevitably appealed.
"I think I speak on behalf of everyone here when I say huh?" - Buffy
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iiNet slays Hollywood in landmark piracy case[^] "The giants of the film industry have lost their case against ISP iiNet in a landmark judgment handed down in the Federal Court today. The decision had the potential to impact internet users and the internet industry profoundly as it sets a legal precedent surrounding how much ISPs are required to do to prevent customers from downloading movies and other content illegally. But after an on-and-off eight-week trial that examined whether iiNet authorised customers to download pirated movies, Justice Dennis Cowdroy found that the ISP was not liable for the downloading habits of its customers. ... iiNet argued that it was not required by law to act on ‘‘mere allegations’’ of copyright infringement, that customers were innocent until proven guilty in court, and that the case was like suing the electricity company for things people do with their electricity." Sanity prevails, though it will be interesting to see what happens once the decision is inevitably appealed.
"I think I speak on behalf of everyone here when I say huh?" - Buffy
Well, it's an interesting question. My tenant's son does not leave his bed some days. He has every current hollywood movie on DVD, he doesn't get why I won't let my kids borrow them. The internet has sprung up at random, and it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes. Either that, or we just accept the death of the music/movie/software industries. Don't think these people are not also copying our work and trying to avoid paying for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well, it's an interesting question. My tenant's son does not leave his bed some days. He has every current hollywood movie on DVD, he doesn't get why I won't let my kids borrow them. The internet has sprung up at random, and it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes. Either that, or we just accept the death of the music/movie/software industries. Don't think these people are not also copying our work and trying to avoid paying for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I saw the article earlier today, and I particularly liked iiNet's comments afterwards re: the music/movie industries working to make content legally available etc... People will pay for good quality stuff over pirated poor copy stuff.
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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I saw the article earlier today, and I particularly liked iiNet's comments afterwards re: the music/movie industries working to make content legally available etc... People will pay for good quality stuff over pirated poor copy stuff.
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
People will pay for good quality stuff over pirated poor copy stuff.
But will movie houses release good quality stuff before a film is in the cinemas ? Will the movie houses release it for free ? Piracy is here to stay, as far as I can see. It always was, but the internet makes the problem a whole lot worse.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
People will pay for good quality stuff over pirated poor copy stuff.
But will movie houses release good quality stuff before a film is in the cinemas ? Will the movie houses release it for free ? Piracy is here to stay, as far as I can see. It always was, but the internet makes the problem a whole lot worse.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
There will always be an element of piracy... what it comes down to is minimisation. However, the whole "piracy will kill the industry" argument has been going on since personal cassette recorders... It hasn't yet, and it's unlikely ever to...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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There will always be an element of piracy... what it comes down to is minimisation. However, the whole "piracy will kill the industry" argument has been going on since personal cassette recorders... It hasn't yet, and it's unlikely ever to...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
It's funny, I google and I get as many stories to say CD sales are down, as say they are up. I do think that music artists in particular, are being hurt, because if you were going to play it in the iPod anyhow, there's no difference between a stolen and a bought MP3. But, movies are surely not far behind. one thing people forget, is that the boy who has seen every hollywood movie, would not have seen them all and paid for them. But, it DOES impact on ticket sales, and DVD sales, nonetheless. I don't doubt that it does that, far more than cassettes did. It's the central distribution problem that meant cassettes were only good for copying an album off a mate, who expected to copy one off you in return. Online is not like that at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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It's funny, I google and I get as many stories to say CD sales are down, as say they are up. I do think that music artists in particular, are being hurt, because if you were going to play it in the iPod anyhow, there's no difference between a stolen and a bought MP3. But, movies are surely not far behind. one thing people forget, is that the boy who has seen every hollywood movie, would not have seen them all and paid for them. But, it DOES impact on ticket sales, and DVD sales, nonetheless. I don't doubt that it does that, far more than cassettes did. It's the central distribution problem that meant cassettes were only good for copying an album off a mate, who expected to copy one off you in return. Online is not like that at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I do understand the issue with the analogy (that of both lossless copying (quality) and limitless/boundaryless distribution), but it's still the hyperbole that I find annoying. Did not a movie just get released that has smashed all box office records ever? (Avatar) The industry needs to get with the program - stop thinking that charging the same for an album download as you can buy the physical album is reasonable - stop releasing movies at different times to different countries, and start making them available online for a reasonable price. People will still attend cinemas for the "experience" if that's what they are into...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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I do understand the issue with the analogy (that of both lossless copying (quality) and limitless/boundaryless distribution), but it's still the hyperbole that I find annoying. Did not a movie just get released that has smashed all box office records ever? (Avatar) The industry needs to get with the program - stop thinking that charging the same for an album download as you can buy the physical album is reasonable - stop releasing movies at different times to different countries, and start making them available online for a reasonable price. People will still attend cinemas for the "experience" if that's what they are into...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Did not a movie just get released that has smashed all box office records ever? (Avatar)
3D looks like it's being taken seriously as a way to get people back to the movies. Avatar worked on that level.
_Damian S_ wrote:
stop thinking that charging the same for an album download as you can buy the physical album is reasonable -
Agreed - that's another reason that downloads are a joke. How much did you want for that ?
_Damian S_ wrote:
top releasing movies at different times to different countries
Agreed - but a lot of movies are made with the intention of making money on the blockbuster season, which is summer, here and there.
_Damian S_ wrote:
start making them available online for a reasonable price
What sort of price is reasonable for a one time watch at home for unlimited people in theory ? I can easily show a movie to 20 people in my lounge. How do they price for that ?
_Damian S_ wrote:
People will still attend cinemas for the "experience" if that's what they are into...
I get a better experience at home, unless I do gold class. 65 inch screen is big enough, comfy lounge, can watch in my undies. all the food I want, 7:2 sound, etc.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Did not a movie just get released that has smashed all box office records ever? (Avatar)
3D looks like it's being taken seriously as a way to get people back to the movies. Avatar worked on that level.
_Damian S_ wrote:
stop thinking that charging the same for an album download as you can buy the physical album is reasonable -
Agreed - that's another reason that downloads are a joke. How much did you want for that ?
_Damian S_ wrote:
top releasing movies at different times to different countries
Agreed - but a lot of movies are made with the intention of making money on the blockbuster season, which is summer, here and there.
_Damian S_ wrote:
start making them available online for a reasonable price
What sort of price is reasonable for a one time watch at home for unlimited people in theory ? I can easily show a movie to 20 people in my lounge. How do they price for that ?
_Damian S_ wrote:
People will still attend cinemas for the "experience" if that's what they are into...
I get a better experience at home, unless I do gold class. 65 inch screen is big enough, comfy lounge, can watch in my undies. all the food I want, 7:2 sound, etc.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
How much did you want for that ?
For a song - I reckon no more than 20cents for big names, under 10 cents for emerging bands...
Christian Graus wrote:
a lot of movies are made with the intention of making money on the blockbuster season, which is summer
People will see it whenever if it's a good movie...
Christian Graus wrote:
What sort of price is reasonable for a one time watch at home for unlimited people in theory ?
Less than buying a DVD... re: 20 people - you could do the same with a DVD, except of course you might actually be flirting with the "public exhibition" component of the copyright laws...
Christian Graus wrote:
I get a better experience at home, unless I do gold class.
All valid reasons why I don't go to the movies often - I prefer to watch at home!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Did not a movie just get released that has smashed all box office records ever? (Avatar)
3D looks like it's being taken seriously as a way to get people back to the movies. Avatar worked on that level.
_Damian S_ wrote:
stop thinking that charging the same for an album download as you can buy the physical album is reasonable -
Agreed - that's another reason that downloads are a joke. How much did you want for that ?
_Damian S_ wrote:
top releasing movies at different times to different countries
Agreed - but a lot of movies are made with the intention of making money on the blockbuster season, which is summer, here and there.
_Damian S_ wrote:
start making them available online for a reasonable price
What sort of price is reasonable for a one time watch at home for unlimited people in theory ? I can easily show a movie to 20 people in my lounge. How do they price for that ?
_Damian S_ wrote:
People will still attend cinemas for the "experience" if that's what they are into...
I get a better experience at home, unless I do gold class. 65 inch screen is big enough, comfy lounge, can watch in my undies. all the food I want, 7:2 sound, etc.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
3D looks like it's being taken seriously as a way to get people back to the movies. Avatar worked on that level.
Last time I looked the majority of cinama goesrs wtched it in 2D
Christian Graus wrote:
I can easily show a movie to 20 people in my lounge.
I'll bring my own popcorn
Christian Graus wrote:
can watch in my undies.
I just changed my mind :")
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Christian Graus wrote:
How much did you want for that ?
For a song - I reckon no more than 20cents for big names, under 10 cents for emerging bands...
Christian Graus wrote:
a lot of movies are made with the intention of making money on the blockbuster season, which is summer
People will see it whenever if it's a good movie...
Christian Graus wrote:
What sort of price is reasonable for a one time watch at home for unlimited people in theory ?
Less than buying a DVD... re: 20 people - you could do the same with a DVD, except of course you might actually be flirting with the "public exhibition" component of the copyright laws...
Christian Graus wrote:
I get a better experience at home, unless I do gold class.
All valid reasons why I don't go to the movies often - I prefer to watch at home!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
People will see it whenever if it's a good movie...
Some will. And some will stay indoors if it's cold and wet.
_Damian S_ wrote:
Less than buying a DVD... re: 20 people - you could do the same with a DVD, except of course you might actually be flirting with the "public exhibition" component of the copyright laws...
But if they make the download available AT THE SAME TIME that it's in the movies, they are more likely to lose revenue as a result.
_Damian S_ wrote:
All valid reasons why I don't go to the movies often - I prefer to watch at home!
I just like to watch.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
People will see it whenever if it's a good movie...
Some will. And some will stay indoors if it's cold and wet.
_Damian S_ wrote:
Less than buying a DVD... re: 20 people - you could do the same with a DVD, except of course you might actually be flirting with the "public exhibition" component of the copyright laws...
But if they make the download available AT THE SAME TIME that it's in the movies, they are more likely to lose revenue as a result.
_Damian S_ wrote:
All valid reasons why I don't go to the movies often - I prefer to watch at home!
I just like to watch.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
some will stay indoors if it's cold and wet
Aspro people... dissolve in a little water...
Christian Graus wrote:
they are more likely to lose revenue as a result.
Perhaps... or perhaps they will simply shift the revenue from one place to another...
Christian Graus wrote:
I just like to watch.
'nuff said! :laugh:
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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Christian Graus wrote:
3D looks like it's being taken seriously as a way to get people back to the movies. Avatar worked on that level.
Last time I looked the majority of cinama goesrs wtched it in 2D
Christian Graus wrote:
I can easily show a movie to 20 people in my lounge.
I'll bring my own popcorn
Christian Graus wrote:
can watch in my undies.
I just changed my mind :")
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Last time I looked the majority of cinama goesrs wtched it in 2D
More and more movies are 3D nowadays. Cinemas charge extra for it, so they like it. Avatar, Alice in Wonderland, Up, you name it. Not romantic comedies so much, but I feel like they are moving towards it being the norm.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
some will stay indoors if it's cold and wet
Aspro people... dissolve in a little water...
Christian Graus wrote:
they are more likely to lose revenue as a result.
Perhaps... or perhaps they will simply shift the revenue from one place to another...
Christian Graus wrote:
I just like to watch.
'nuff said! :laugh:
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Perhaps... or perhaps they will simply shift the revenue from one place to another...
So long as they get the mix between how many people watch per payment, how many of those would otherwise have seen at the movies, and how much they charge, just right, AND people are willing to pay that much and not pirate.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Perhaps... or perhaps they will simply shift the revenue from one place to another...
So long as they get the mix between how many people watch per payment, how many of those would otherwise have seen at the movies, and how much they charge, just right, AND people are willing to pay that much and not pirate.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I never said it was easy... but it's a bit like the ticket price argument... are you better off to have a half full cinema at $20 per ticket or a full cinema at $10 per ticket... Clearly a full one... As people paying $10 per ticket are likely to also buy a drink/popcorn, which is where the real money comes from!!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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I never said it was easy... but it's a bit like the ticket price argument... are you better off to have a half full cinema at $20 per ticket or a full cinema at $10 per ticket... Clearly a full one... As people paying $10 per ticket are likely to also buy a drink/popcorn, which is where the real money comes from!!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
Clearly a full one... As people paying $10 per ticket are likely to also buy a drink/popcorn, which is where the real money comes from!!
Yes, and the cinema business dies if people move to movies at home. So the cinemas will fight any transition to that model. It's a complex situation and one that would be hard to work through and come out ahead. There would certainly be losers.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well, it's an interesting question. My tenant's son does not leave his bed some days. He has every current hollywood movie on DVD, he doesn't get why I won't let my kids borrow them. The internet has sprung up at random, and it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes. Either that, or we just accept the death of the music/movie/software industries. Don't think these people are not also copying our work and trying to avoid paying for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes.
Agreed, but the builders of a road are not accountable for the behaviour of bad drivers, so the judicial decision was correct.
Christian Graus wrote:
Either that, or we just accept the death of the music/movie/software industries
feh. That song's been sung too many times. Fact: The ents industry makes excessive profits, and so has become a clique based entirely on greed (the word "art" is just lip service on most lips). If it started to die because of falling profits, the greedy would be the first to leave, so it would evolve into something better.
Christian Graus wrote:
Don't think these people are not also copying our work and trying to avoid paying for it.
"These people" are people, not a sub-class of human.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Well, it's an interesting question. My tenant's son does not leave his bed some days. He has every current hollywood movie on DVD, he doesn't get why I won't let my kids borrow them. The internet has sprung up at random, and it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes. Either that, or we just accept the death of the music/movie/software industries. Don't think these people are not also copying our work and trying to avoid paying for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
The internet has sprung up at random, and it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes.
What about the people who didn't commit any crimes? Should they be liable as well? Should they be subject to increased restrictions on their behavior and outright spying on their activity because they at some point might commit a crime?
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Well, it's an interesting question. My tenant's son does not leave his bed some days. He has every current hollywood movie on DVD, he doesn't get why I won't let my kids borrow them. The internet has sprung up at random, and it's clear that at some point, people need to be liable for their crimes. Either that, or we just accept the death of the music/movie/software industries. Don't think these people are not also copying our work and trying to avoid paying for it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.