Toyota Acceleration Issues
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Reliability and durability? I know it's extreme situations but that's why lorries (at least used to) not have synchromesh because it increases the life of the gearbox. Also, although again a niche market, I actually use the 4x4 capabilities of my 4x4 and would rather have control over the gears. While I'm not denying the new Land Rovers (about the only truly capable modern off-roaders) are fantastic even Land Rover themselves admit that a basic vehicle with a competant driver is more capable than their new systems. Also if the BMW I was given a lift in is the average of modern autos then it's bloody awful! Put your foot down and nothing happened for a few seconds, the 2.7 tonne Disco we drove the weekend before was more responsive and that had the same sized engine in a car that was twice the weight.
Ed.Poore wrote:
Put your foot down and nothing happened for a few seconds
Reminds me of Ford automatics. :laugh: That's why I always preferred Mitsubishi's adaptive auto: it does response immediately, and you always feel like it does what you want.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
Why don't people just turn off the engine?
Try it yourself with your car. I guarantee you the loss of power-stearing (and the associated heaviness of the stearing due to having to turn the wheels and power stearing system) is just as scary as unintended acceleration. A better question would be; why don't they just limit their speed using the gearbox. And the answer; Americans don't know how to drive manual transmission cars.
"...Americans don't know how to drive manual transmission cars..." Gee, really? Got any research to back up that assertion? Tell ya what - let's you and me take a driving test together. Let's see how well you do with a Freightliner Classic XL, 280-inch wheelbase, with an Eaton 10-speed transmission and a 500-hp Detroit diesel with 1650 ft/lbs of torque. C'mon and drive MY manual transmission. :-)
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I can't understand the stories of people who crashed after going 100+ mph in Toyota cars due to unintended acceleration. Why don't people just turn off the engine?
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"Too busy talking on the phone and drinking a $5 cup of coffee." Exactly. If you have to put your cell call on hold, pause the game on your laptop, and set your coffee aside BEFORE dealing with an emergency, then you're pretty much screwed.
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Jeremy Hutchinson wrote:
How big are these parking lots?
Never mind that, what kind of engines are these Toyotas packing to go that fast in such a short distance? I'll have one to go please! I am stunned beyond all sensible reality grippage capacity. Driving is not a leisurely activity although the general practice has demoted it to something like that. First lesson on Driving 101 School -> be always prepared for the unexpected: a pot hole, a kid's ball running onto the street, your engine shutting down, a blown tire, you name it. Not condoning a problem like sudden acceleration, it needs to be fixed. But, to put claims like the ones flying from Toyota drivers caught with their pants down while "driving" :wtf: , perhaps they should get reprimanded by traffic enforcement and be sent to driving school while their law suit to Toyota is in the works. -- Rogelio
Its not even about the distants that you are driving the pedal gets stuck so you can't stop accelerating. just think if anymore faults get picked up.. apart from the preus (their hybrid cars) that you can't stop!! you might be able to bag a bargin soon
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We should not give driver license to those who do not know the purpose of the position N of the automatic transmission neither those that have not the reflex to use it when needed even in emergency situation.
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The vaccum assist for any brake system lasts for a couple of pumps after the engine has stopped providing it. If you stand on the brake, that amounts to one long pump, so you're safe.
Even if the regular brakes stop working, there is always the parking brake lever - just don't jam it on. In my driving course, (a long time ago), my instructor actually made me try this out...
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Chris Losinger wrote:
because they are, understandably, panicking.
They are also, understandably stupid. One person had the wherewithall to get on his cell phone and call 911 while careening 100 mph down the highway. I would say that person was easily capable of turning the ignition switch backward one click.
Not all ignitition switches are the same. I can't remember the make/model, but one car I drove had the "Acc" setting on the far side of "Off".
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I understand the throttle got stucj under the edge of the carpet/mat. So you give it a bit coming out of a junction say, ease off, and the thing just keeps going. You have a few milli seconds to realise somehting is worng and work out an alternative strategy to cope with it. Said strategy is NOT normal car control, thus NOT instinctive and thus SLOW to decide and implement. At which stage you are burried into the car infront/shop window etc. Someone used to driving dodgy cars where bits fall off and things go wrong might cope beter, but average joe is screwed.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
I think it was last week I heard a little news bite, where it was reported that this was happening on the Toyota Prius, and not a floormat problem. What I found really interesting was that this was reported by Steve Wozniak (yup, that Steve), and he claimed he could even reproduce the conditions which caused it. Something about a software error... What I hope is if this legit, that this info never gets out to the public, or you are going to have a bunch of out-of-control 16 year olds trying to recreate it....
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Chris Losinger wrote:
because they are, understandably, panicking.
They are also, understandably stupid. One person had the wherewithall to get on his cell phone and call 911 while careening 100 mph down the highway. I would say that person was easily capable of turning the ignition switch backward one click.
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Indeed. I just bought a used car, and my criteria were (1) front-wheel drive, (2) manual transmission, (3) under $10,000. It took a couple weeks of searching web sites before I finally found one (2002 Honda Civic), and most of the listings were kid cars or other junk. I wanted the manual transmission because I simply don't feel safe driving an automatic in snow. The stupid things constantly shift at the wrong times causing you to lose traction and steering at the worst possible moment.
Software Zen:
delete this;Exactly! Many people are too lazy to drive a manual, though.
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I think it was last week I heard a little news bite, where it was reported that this was happening on the Toyota Prius, and not a floormat problem. What I found really interesting was that this was reported by Steve Wozniak (yup, that Steve), and he claimed he could even reproduce the conditions which caused it. Something about a software error... What I hope is if this legit, that this info never gets out to the public, or you are going to have a bunch of out-of-control 16 year olds trying to recreate it....
His was a cruise control issue. Not a stuck accelerator pedal.
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I can't understand the stories of people who crashed after going 100+ mph in Toyota cars due to unintended acceleration. Why don't people just turn off the engine?
In 1972 I had a Renault 16 with an accelerator cable which snapped. Back then, the words "fail safe" (used together) were unknown. The subsequent ride around the "Middle Ring" in Munich was exciting, but with judicious use of clutch, brake and gears, I was able to drive "safely" at full revs from the failure point to my home on the Leopoldstrasse (about 5 Km). I was relatively luck with the parking spot though... By the way, I had left my home country (The United States) only one year prior to that incident, so overgeneralisation about country of origin and driving ability is definitely wrong. Admittedly, I was used to the "stick shift" because of my farming background: one of my dad's tractors (a John Deere 420 ("putt-putt")) had a 5(forward)-speed transmission and it was possible to change into any forward gear (except for 1st) without using the clutch. I think that the modern computer controlled "fly by wire" systems are probably at least as dangerous as letting the driver make all the mistakes decisions. Remember the first Airbus! :-D
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Why not just slip the tranny into neutral? Then you can safely apply the brakes and still have pwr steering. Many years back I had a '78 Ford Crown Vick and the accelerator stuck when I floored it to pass on a two-lane road. I slipped it into neutral, applied the brakes, and moments later was safely on the shoulder, head under the hood, cursing Henry Ford for all he was worth. :-) Seriously, I don't believe people are as smart as they used to be where driving is concerned. Too many distractions (cell phones, etc), and a sort of helpless, "OMG what do I do" attitude when faced with a problem. Whatever happened to the good old "just deal with it" attitude of years past?
The OMG what do I do attitude is almost everywhere. 90% of people I see have that attitude. Their brains are non-existant in emergency situations.
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
Why don't people just turn off the engine?
Most modern cars have power steering. If the engine were to be switched off you would then be in the position of not only going quite fast but also of it being potentially difficult to steer out of danger (although the steering should lighten at higher speeds). Best to stand on the brakes to attempt to slow the car to a stop.
Tychotics: take us back to the moon "Life, for ever dying to be born afresh, for ever young and eager, will presently stand upon this earth as upon a footstool, and stretch out its realm amidst the stars." H. G. Wells
I'll take "no more uncontrollable acceleration" over "heavy steering" any day. More important is that you also lose power braking when the engine is off, but that doesn't matter because people have claimed that when the accelerator is stuck, the brakes don't work (maybe there's no more power to send to the hydraulic brake pump when the engine is at full throttle).
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
I would say that person was easily capable of turning the ignition switch backward one click.
IIRC, the car in that case had a push-button ignition. and with those you have to press and hold the button for a few seconds. perhaps they did try, but didn't hold it long enough - since it wasn't their car they might not have known how long they needed to hold it. they probably didn't have a lot of time to read the owner's manual. plus, you know, he was busy trying to control a strange car going way too fast while everybody in the car was probably screaming. but, of course, i wasn't there, so i'll withhold judgment about how "stupid" the guy was.
Chris Losinger wrote:
plus, you know, he was busy trying to control a strange car going way too fast while everybody in the car was probably screaming.
He had time to pick up his phone, dial 911 and explain the problem before crashing fatally. That was plenty of time to knock it into neutral (or even reverse, which at best, slows the car down, at worst, slows it down a bit then stalls the engine and destroys the gearbox - either way better than crashing at the car's maximum speed), stand on the brake, pull the handbrake and knock off the engine. Anything other than panic on the phone. Also, the guy was a traffic cop??
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Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
Why don't people just turn off the engine?
Try it yourself with your car. I guarantee you the loss of power-stearing (and the associated heaviness of the stearing due to having to turn the wheels and power stearing system) is just as scary as unintended acceleration. A better question would be; why don't they just limit their speed using the gearbox. And the answer; Americans don't know how to drive manual transmission cars.
Have you never driven a car without power steering? It's only a pain when you're parking the car or otherwise manoeuvring at very low speeds. It feels practically the same once you're travelling at speed. Also, throwing the wheel around at >100mph is a bad idea anyway. It only takes a small turn to swerve around cars.
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I can't understand the stories of people who crashed after going 100+ mph in Toyota cars due to unintended acceleration. Why don't people just turn off the engine?
Richard Andrew x64 wrote:
I can't understand the stories of people who crashed after going 100+ mph in Toyota cars due to unintended acceleration.Why don't people just turn off the engine?
It's bizarre, especially the case where the driver (or at least one of the passengers) was a traffic cop, and instead of knocking the transmission into neutral, turning off the engine, pulling the parking brake etc., he called 911 and explained the problem before eventually crashing and killing all occupants of the car. I made a blog post on it a while back. Darwin indeed! People are getting too cushy driving these massive heavy blocks of metal about with power steering, cruise control and automatic gearboxes. Maybe they should be trained on a manual transmission before they can pass their driving test?
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I can't understand the stories of people who crashed after going 100+ mph in Toyota cars due to unintended acceleration. Why don't people just turn off the engine?
The Woz claims this is a software problem and that it can be reproduced. His description for reproducing the bug starts: "Suppose you are on a road where 85MPH is a legal speed limit" ... when you are going 85 and your accelerate sticks 100 isn't that far away. I'm avoiding the issue by keeping my Prius under 85 :-D
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I'll take "no more uncontrollable acceleration" over "heavy steering" any day. More important is that you also lose power braking when the engine is off, but that doesn't matter because people have claimed that when the accelerator is stuck, the brakes don't work (maybe there's no more power to send to the hydraulic brake pump when the engine is at full throttle).
The 'brakes don't work' because the people were stomping on them for so long, water that the brake fluid absorbed boiled.Once that happens, the brake pedal compresses water vapour instead of moving the brake cylinder and brake pad/shoe. People have had enough time to ring 911 and talk to the operator for a minute or two before crashing. Throw it into 'N', and come to a halt safely. Sure the engine will over rev and might throw a con-rod out of bed... but I'd rather pay for an engine than be DEAD. Yes, I drive in major cities across the US and on freeways.
