Suggested resources for co-op students moving from Java to VB
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
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Have to second that, The core programing was java at my school, but most of us fled to other languages in other classes, as well as having to go through courses such as programing language concepts which was nothing but learning types of languages so that you could pick up the god awful amount of languages and projects they threw at you during the course. If someone comes out of school only knowing one language that school has some serious issues with their curriculum.
Yeah, that's pretty much what Joel was saying[^].
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I think an appointment with a psychiatrist is the first stop they should make. VB is just wrong on so many levels - in ANY of its evil incarnations. Besides, it would be easier to move from java to C# than to VB.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001:laugh: It would undoubtedly have been easier to move from Java to C#. Perhaps I should have asked him to re-write the thing in C#? It's a horrible old application anyhow...
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Have to second that, The core programing was java at my school, but most of us fled to other languages in other classes, as well as having to go through courses such as programing language concepts which was nothing but learning types of languages so that you could pick up the god awful amount of languages and projects they threw at you during the course. If someone comes out of school only knowing one language that school has some serious issues with their curriculum.
I should clarify that he is still in school. In his second year. He's in a co-op program which means that they alternate semesters between being in the classroom and being on a work placement.
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I think an appointment with a psychiatrist is the first stop they should make. VB is just wrong on so many levels - in ANY of its evil incarnations. Besides, it would be easier to move from java to C# than to VB.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Here speaks the voice of a VB Programmer. :) How's that working out by the way?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
WickedTribe72 wrote: But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, Did you expected him to say "the placement was shit and i didn't enjoyed writing VB code at all..." Ofcourse not...as he might get a job in your company once he is graduate.
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I think an appointment with a psychiatrist is the first stop they should make. VB is just wrong on so many levels - in ANY of its evil incarnations. Besides, it would be easier to move from java to C# than to VB.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
VB is just wrong on so many levels - in ANY of its evil incarnations.
Aren't you a VB programmer? I heard that somewhere :~
Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
As someone who started CO-OP after his third semester of college, I can attest to the sensation of being overwhelmed. I don't think your problem lies entirely in the kwowledge gap but rather where most college students are at that point. I was going through all kinds of emotions initially as a CO-OP. -You're thrust into a position expected to perform (at what level you're unsure of), so you keep wondering what's expected of you. You want to learn and shine, but are unsure if you're 'good enough'. -I was confortable with C/C++, but even that wasn't good enough for the sort of development in C++ I was thrust into. I was just not comfortable with the intricacies of threads/mutexes at that point in college. -I was still unsure of whether or not I even would enjoy the field I was committing the rest of my life to. A lot of it really boils down to the personality of the student and where they are in their careers. By my second CO-OP experience, I was much more confident in myself and my abilities. When I was thrust into something new, I felt more confident I would succeed. To answer your question directly, I think the first step would be to understand where each candidate is at before they come to the job. In the cases where its a knowledge gap, I would definitely set expectations up front. I would give them a general overview of the application and how it works. A quick walkthrough of the code would be useful (and while you're at it coding standards, if time permits). Provide them with some links to good tutorials and some time to figure it out. You'll want to touch base with them more frequently at first. Once they get rolling though, you can be more hands off. But really, it all hinges on how they respond to the situation. I think its important to remember they are just students. They're standing at a cross roads of their lives, unsure of which direction to take. I hope that helps.
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:laugh: It would undoubtedly have been easier to move from Java to C#. Perhaps I should have asked him to re-write the thing in C#? It's a horrible old application anyhow...
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
I'm not sure there is a way to help that transition. I came up on VB6, I've since recovered and have been using C# since ~2003. We have some code in VB.net at my current jog, and I can read it just fine, but I do find it takes me twice as long to actually write anything.
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:laugh: It would undoubtedly have been easier to move from Java to C#. Perhaps I should have asked him to re-write the thing in C#? It's a horrible old application anyhow...
WickedTribe72 wrote:
It's a horrible old application anyhow...
If you think its horrible as is, then perhaps that only added to the overwhelmed feeling he had.
WickedTribe72 wrote:
Perhaps I should have asked him to re-write the thing in C#?
I would have recommended that, assuming your shop wasn't partial only to VB.
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
DON'T
Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.
modified on Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:53 AM
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
Java (frying pan) --> VB (flaming fires of hell). It might have beaan easier to go: Java (frying pan) --> C# (fluffy clouds)
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven
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Yeah, that's pretty much what Joel was saying[^].
I just read that and, IMHO, he is 100% right (this time). I look at new graduates and I honestly wonder what the hell they teach them in schools these days.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Have to second that, The core programing was java at my school, but most of us fled to other languages in other classes, as well as having to go through courses such as programing language concepts which was nothing but learning types of languages so that you could pick up the god awful amount of languages and projects they threw at you during the course. If someone comes out of school only knowing one language that school has some serious issues with their curriculum.
If someone comes out of school only knowing one language that school has some serious issues with their curriculum. Agreed. I started taking programming classes in the mid 80s at a community college, AA degree called "Computers for Small Business." The "intro to" class used Algorithm -- a pseudo-code based on Pascal -- to teach the concepts. Actual languages were started in the second semester with Pascal. I also learned C, COBOL, RPG and data entry (you can tell this was in the 80s, right?) in addition to accounting and general ed. I can't imagine a computer student finishing the second year -- YEAR -- and having exerience with only one programming language.
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
WickedTribe72 wrote:
for whom the programming language is unfamiliar
Aren't you in control of that? :confused: I remember my co-op job... I had to use VAX BASIC because that's all the boss knew.
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As someone who started CO-OP after his third semester of college, I can attest to the sensation of being overwhelmed. I don't think your problem lies entirely in the kwowledge gap but rather where most college students are at that point. I was going through all kinds of emotions initially as a CO-OP. -You're thrust into a position expected to perform (at what level you're unsure of), so you keep wondering what's expected of you. You want to learn and shine, but are unsure if you're 'good enough'. -I was confortable with C/C++, but even that wasn't good enough for the sort of development in C++ I was thrust into. I was just not comfortable with the intricacies of threads/mutexes at that point in college. -I was still unsure of whether or not I even would enjoy the field I was committing the rest of my life to. A lot of it really boils down to the personality of the student and where they are in their careers. By my second CO-OP experience, I was much more confident in myself and my abilities. When I was thrust into something new, I felt more confident I would succeed. To answer your question directly, I think the first step would be to understand where each candidate is at before they come to the job. In the cases where its a knowledge gap, I would definitely set expectations up front. I would give them a general overview of the application and how it works. A quick walkthrough of the code would be useful (and while you're at it coding standards, if time permits). Provide them with some links to good tutorials and some time to figure it out. You'll want to touch base with them more frequently at first. Once they get rolling though, you can be more hands off. But really, it all hinges on how they respond to the situation. I think its important to remember they are just students. They're standing at a cross roads of their lives, unsure of which direction to take. I hope that helps.
Thanks, that does help. As this is the first student I've had it's been a learning experience for everyone. One of the things that I will definitely take away from this experience is the need to touch bases more frequently and set clear expectations. I did give him some resources that I had found useful and time with the application, but perhaps I should have spent more time giving him an overview of the application and walking him through the portion that he was expected to work on.
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My first co-op student is wrapping up his placement this week and he made a comment that surprised me. At school he's been working almost exclusively I guess in Java and when he came here he was assigned to work on a VB.Net application. I gave him some time and told him to familiarize himself with the project but I didn't think it would be a difficult move to go from Java to VB - after all, an If statement is still an If statement, right? But today we sat down and had a little chat and he told me that he had felt overwhelmed by the experience, so now I'm wondering, if I get another student for whom the programming language is unfamiliar what can I do to ease the transition for him/her?
Maybe try J# if that's still around. Still the transition to C# from Java should be easier than moving to VB. I find VB 2002 and later (the .NET versions) pretty much identical to C# though I'm from a background that includes both VB and C++. At uni most of our programming was java, though there was a also one module that was in fortran, one in perl, a few involving the horrendous scripting language in lotus notes. There was a tiny bit of C++ though most of what they taught was plain wrong. At college, everything was turbo pascal and there was no programming in school. I used classic VB, C and C++ at home though.
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I should clarify that he is still in school. In his second year. He's in a co-op program which means that they alternate semesters between being in the classroom and being on a work placement.
Yea, I went through the same thing. But they stuck the 'learning how to learn languages' bit at the beginning of my curriculum and blew through it fairly easily. Didn't know squat for SQL, .net or the VB6 bits that I wound up doing within the first few weeks. It just meant I needed to do some research and snag some documentation to get what I needed to know, not terribly overwhelming aside from the few times we needed to do something planned for weeks in under a day.
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WickedTribe72 wrote:
for whom the programming language is unfamiliar
Aren't you in control of that? :confused: I remember my co-op job... I had to use VAX BASIC because that's all the boss knew.
the programming language? No, the application was written before I arrived here.
