So, why are you looking to leave your company?
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Great minds think alike!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Isn't it humorous how some people have absolutely no sense of humor?
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
CodeAddiction wrote:
compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles
They tell you the truth? Do you? "Don't ask; don't tell."
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CodeAddiction wrote:
compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles
They tell you the truth? Do you? "Don't ask; don't tell."
It's not hard to figure out where people are at based on spending habits and other things. Certainly when the disparity is as large as it is. Nobody has ever told me an actual number as to where their own salary is, but i know the range where everyone else is at. Plus, I helped a friend who is 23 and had no prior experience, degree or training get hired where I work. He was hired at a rate that is significantly above me (although contract and not perm). I helped him negotiate what to ask for ... and they took the first number he put down. That's another strong indicator, lol. I'm glad for him though, and he's working out great. ;)
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
Money is not always an answer though. Working with a good team, where your skills matter and you ideas are valued, can make for a much richer work experience than just for money. You can have a great paying job and hate every minute you are there and never have a chance to grow. Just my 7.5 cents worth ;)
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: CubeTube – Power work are from ambient light!
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CodeAddiction wrote:
Thoughts?
Several. Naked women, my current project, what will I have for dinner?, naked women, I need to get a more comfortable chair, I wish I can afford a ferrari, naked women...
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Naked women, my current project, what will I have for dinner?, naked women, I need to get a more comfortable chair, I wish I can afford a ferrari, naked women...
If this isn't a proof as to why married life sucks, I don't know what it...
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Money is not always an answer though. Working with a good team, where your skills matter and you ideas are valued, can make for a much richer work experience than just for money. You can have a great paying job and hate every minute you are there and never have a chance to grow. Just my 7.5 cents worth ;)
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: CubeTube – Power work are from ambient light!
Inflation?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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Isn't it humorous how some people have absolutely no sense of humor?
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Yeah, welcome to our PC world. Bunch of fuckwits, frankly.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Inflation?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
He probably just gets paid better. The hypocrite!
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Um... they aren't ALLOWED to check. If they happen to contact your current employer all your current employer is allowed to say is that you work there. At least in the states anyway. The only people who are able to know what you make are your current employer, the IRS and your spouse. Everyone else has to go by what you tell them.
------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.. but it ROCKS absolutely, too.
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
I work with a few of very good recruiters. They don't care why you're switching as long as they get their commission (and I've done that for a few.)
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Naked women, my current project, what will I have for dinner?, naked women, I need to get a more comfortable chair, I wish I can afford a ferrari, naked women...
If this isn't a proof as to why married life sucks, I don't know what it...
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
If this isn't a proof as to why married life sucks, I don't know what it...
I fail to see your reasoning.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
Here are a few answers. "Honestly, the coders I'm working with are great at their jobs. I'd like to shepherd them further on this project. But we've gotten the code to a point where they really don't need me anymore. I'd prefer to take on another interesting project." "I'm looking for a new challenge. My current company is great and there are wonderful people working here but I need to move in a new direction. I think I've exhausted all that Project Type X can do for me." "We're going through a reorganization and I'm thinking that the new organization is going to lead me into old technology rather than new. I prefer to work with new technology." "We've shifted our focus from New Code to Maintenance Coding. I'd rather work on New projects. Something I can sink my teeth into." "We've shifted our focus from Maintenance Coding to New Code. I'd really like to work on improving software that already works rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. Something I can sink my teeth into." "I don't necessarily want to leave. But I understand I might be doing myself a dis-service by not looking at the options that are out there." "I won't if I don't hear a good offer or get approached about a cool project. This place is fine. But I'd like to see what's out there. If I hear a good enough offer or you can offer me something interesting to work on, I'll leave. Otherwise I'm not interested." Whatever answer(s) you decide might work for you, you need to rehearse them so that when you say them they are smooth without seeming too glib. Eventually you can get the feel as to whether the recruiter needs to hear definitive insistence in your answers or a certain amount of coyness. But probably not right away. That difference is illustrated by the last two answers. Essentially they say the same thing but in two ways. SALARY If you don't want to talk about your salary, don't. A recruiter has to try and get you hooked up with the client. They have on one hand a client looking for someone, and on the other a set of resumes and a ticking clock. If you weren't interesting, they wouldn't have called you. Think of it this way; if you don't take their job, you are no worse off. If they don't hook someone up with their client then they lose. There's probably another recruiter in the company across the hall that will scoop them. Ideally you won't budge for less than a 20% jump. Unless you hate your job, or you know for a fact that you are near the top of your compensation expectations
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
You use the words "recruiters" and "truth" in the same sentence? What are you on?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Total complete bullshit. A new employer will ask a previous employer to confirm the salary information you gave them.
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Not true at all. Every company I've worked for has a policy that they are not allowed to tell anything other than "yes he works/ed here." And even if they do ask, the employer is not able to tell salary, thats a breach of confidentially in most cases.
tdmeers wrote:
And even if they do ask, the employer is not able to tell salary, thats a breach of confidentially in most cases.
No it isn't. Unless you have a signed contract that says that. Most companies won't go broadcasting your salary, but they are free to tell anybody who asks. Most (not all) companies I've seen will at least confirm your ending salary when you left a job for a new employer. For publicly-traded companies, the salaries of top executives may well be in the annual reports, but generally other employees are only reported in aggregate, but I don't think there is any law that says they can't publish each and every employee along with their salary. They don't because it would be REALLY bad publicity and would really piss off their employees. Edited to add: From http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs16-bck.htm[^]
What can my former employer say about me? Often a potential employer will contact an applicant's past employers. A former boss can say anything [truthful] about your performance. However, most employers have a policy to only confirm dates of employment, final salary, and other limited information.
Edited to also add: From http://www.salary.com/advice/layouthtmls/advl_display_Cat8_Ser254_Par359.html[^]
Rarely would a company go behind a candidate's back to verify employment information, but they can and do double-check background information including pay.
modified on Friday, March 26, 2010 4:46 PM
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
I think there are some aspects of the truth that recruiters prefer over others. If you were to lie about your skills or past experience, they'd be extremely unhappy about it - because if that lie were to be revealed after they'd placed you with a client there would be financial repercussions for the recruiter. How much you're earning at your present job is largely immaterial to recruiters - but how you feel about it may matter (given that how you feel about 'how you are treated by your employer' may indicate that you'll likely be a problem for the client they place you with) and why you're earning so much less than the market average for your apparent experience and skillset may matter. So, perhaps its not so much that recruiters don't like the truth, but that there are things a candidate can say or reveal that ring warning bells for the recruiter. Regarding the specific question of why you are leaving the current job, and your (most compelling?) reason being money, there are ways I would say that are still honest, but might not trigger the recruiter's fears. One possible response is to be less specific: "There are some things about that job that I find unsatisfactory" is still true, but doesn't say outright "they don't pay me enough." Of course, the recruiter may press for details but, then again, he/she may not. Another, dramatically different, way to avoid having to discuss a topic where you feel you'd have to lie is to change your own point of view about why you are moving. And, I mean really change it, not just pretend to a different reason. Could you learn new skills somewhere else? Would you be more fulfilled working at the job you're interested in? etc. If you can find some other justification for moving, and can see that that justification is valid, then that is as good a reason to move on as money. The fact that the money sucks at the current job can now be pure coincidence - and no longer has to be a subject to lie about with a recruiter. HTH
Chris
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I hope you didn't come into the industry looking for money:~
Two heads are better than one.
No, actually, I didn't. I do demand at some point to have some level of fairness though.
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CodeAddiction wrote:
Thoughts?
Several. Naked women, my current project, what will I have for dinner?, naked women, I need to get a more comfortable chair, I wish I can afford a ferrari, naked women...
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Good one! I do like the naked women, and more of them! More pay, naw.
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When I talk with recruiters, because I'm still employed, one of the first questions I am asked is "Why are you looking to leave your company?" ... well, money is the truth. I'm significantly underpaid (by tens of $k compared to co-workers of same or lesser roles) and looking for the pay raise that my managers have been failing to deliver for years (despite promises otherwise). My experiences so far have told me that recruiters don't like the truth. They aren't looking to help me get a raise. I've switched to just saying that I don't want to bash my current company and giving a false number when asked my current salary. That response is typically accepted and recruiters don't prod much beyond that, if at all. But I still don't like it. I really like honesty, but it seems like I have to lie about a number of aspects to actually be considered for positions. Thoughts?
I suspect they would rather have an answer that could be given in an interview with a prospective employer, rather than wanting the truth when discussing it privately with you, then a different one later. Even if money is the object you always have to say something such as, feeling you have grown all you can in your current role, that you are searching for a new and exciting challenge. Employers all know money is the elephant in the room, but want to feel people are firstly being motivated by something else. Learning to interview well is as much a skill as doing a decent job once you get there.