Open Lwetter to Microsoft
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Actually for me the price for a VS subscription went down significantly. It would have cost $2500 to renew my current Ultimate subscription, but since they offered the step up for this release I was able to purchase the next lower version at $1300 and get Ultimate anyway. However, if the timing hadn't been right and I was forced to renew and pay twice as much as someone else, yes I'd be pissed.
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Amen! I've purchased my last version of Visual Anything. When VS2008 Standard no longer works, I'll be done with this hobby for life.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Agreed 100%. I'll try to get work to pay for VS2010, but we'll be buying a low version, that's for sure.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001hows that anger management class working out John ? ;) Bryce p.s. they won't listen, dollars to donuts they wont even reply to your post. If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
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Agreed 100%. I'll try to get work to pay for VS2010, but we'll be buying a low version, that's for sure.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
If you purchase before the end of the month you'll automatically step-up to the next version.
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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Amen! I've purchased my last version of Visual Anything. When VS2008 Standard no longer works, I'll be done with this hobby for life.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
The only version I ever actually paid for was "Visual C# Standard" in 2003. Since then, I've gotten copies at launch events. I certainly have no interest in buying an MSDN subscription.
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If you purchase before the end of the month you'll automatically step-up to the next version.
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
But if I buy from MS, I need to buy an MSDN. I get the impression that won't be true buying from Amazon ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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hows that anger management class working out John ? ;) Bryce p.s. they won't listen, dollars to donuts they wont even reply to your post. If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
When I was an MVP, I was told my role was to provide feedback, and that they were listening. I reported a bug where images were totally destroyed in resizing them in WPF. I had to send my sample app 3 times and yell at the guy for him to stop saying there was no issue ( check my blog to see the two images ). That was the only time they told me a bug was not a 'feature' and it's still not fixed. They don't care.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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If you purchase before the end of the month you'll automatically step-up to the next version.
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
So if I buy professional, I get premium (including the MSDN upgrade)? Where is this deal stated?
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Microsoft's pricing is not much different than other industry's. I have more than $75,000 in software in my 6 employee business and every dollar of that makes me money on a daily basis. $800 represents 12 or so hours of time. That's pretty cheap if you asked me. Sure it would be great if it was cheaper, but until there's an alternative that let's me work as quickly as it does for banging out C#, C++, and ASP.Net, all nicely integrated with the 3rd party tools and libraries I use, I'll keep paying because it still makes me money. Cheers, Drew.
modified on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:13 AM
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that).
And this is the root of their don't give a damn attitude - they don't have to anymore. Maybe if we all meditate and focus really hard, we can bring about the second coming of Philippe Kahn. And I'm only half joking.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting Services -
The only version I ever actually paid for was "Visual C# Standard" in 2003. Since then, I've gotten copies at launch events. I certainly have no interest in buying an MSDN subscription.
I've paid for every version since Win3.1 (I'm looking at my still unopened CD of Visual C++ 1.52). I used to buy only the Professional version (upgrade pricing), but that became unaffordable with VS2008. Now there's no version that makes any economic sense whatsoever. Oh well, it's been a fun 35 years, and I'm sure I can get many more years of value out of VS2008. But the discussions here at CP will quickly lose any relevance, I'm afraid...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools?
Joe Blow isn't supposed to be making any money, he is supposed to be on government welfare.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground.
Fire up bittorrent and be free.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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hows that anger management class working out John ? ;) Bryce p.s. they won't listen, dollars to donuts they wont even reply to your post. If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
MCAD --- To paraphrase Fred Dagg - the views expressed in this post are bloody good ones. --
Publitor, making Pubmed easy. http://www.sohocode.com/publitorOur kids books :The Snot Goblin, and Book 2 - the Snotgoblin and Fluff
bryce wrote:
If they really were interested in user's feedback they'd be here on CP (the world's dominant MS development website) talking to us.
Nah... One of them might accidentally answer a question, and that would be free technical support. Can't have that...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001I hit this wall with the steaming pile of poo that was VS 2005 and, their refusal to deal with existing issues on VS 2003. I haven't used a MS tool or technology for my business since mid 2006. I don't hate them or feel entitled but, I just don't need their products.
And above all things, never think that you're not good enough yourself. A man should never think that. My belief is that in life people will take you at your own reckoning. --Isaac Asimov Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I've paid for every version since Win3.1 (I'm looking at my still unopened CD of Visual C++ 1.52). I used to buy only the Professional version (upgrade pricing), but that became unaffordable with VS2008. Now there's no version that makes any economic sense whatsoever. Oh well, it's been a fun 35 years, and I'm sure I can get many more years of value out of VS2008. But the discussions here at CP will quickly lose any relevance, I'm afraid...
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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John, for severel years I always appreciated your sense of humour. But now I think you have tipped to madness! MS giving shit away it crazy!
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
Dalek Dave wrote:
MS giving sh*t away it crazy!
not sure I understand what you're driving at, but that's exactly what MS do - they give dev tools and other stuff away to students worldwide. Obviously they are now trying to recoup that money...
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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When someone claims that Microsoft doesn't have an identifiable sense of humor, I can confidently point the the pricing structure for VS2010, and ask them if they've been living under a rock. What in the world is going through your minds? The only thing I can come up with myself is that Microsoft is trying to recoup the costs for other failed software ventures (Vista) or not-so-popular packages (MSDN). Minimum buy-in is $800 - for a freakin' compiler. Let's not even bother bringing Express into the discussion, because it's so crippled as to be useless by serious programmers like me (and there are a lot more of us than your bean counters seem to be aware of) that want decent tools at a reasonable cost. No Standard version? I bet the guy that came up with the UI in WPF idea is responsible for that decision, too. Here's a hint for you idiots. There are people writing Windows apps than for any other platform. You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that). In these harsh (and not improving) economic times, why are you making it IMPOSSIBLE for joe-blow-average to afford your development tools? You've completely ruined MSDN. You've made it impossible to perform offline installs, thinking developers need to be hand-held through the download/install process, and now you want us to pay THOUSANDS of dollars for bloated, bug-ridden crapware that you call development tools. Well, you can count me out. I've made it a practice to not pirate software, but you've forced me to reconsider the veracity of that moral high ground. Finally, thank you, Microsoft, for ruining my last hobby. Assholes...
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
I never knew that, not that I need it currently, the office pays for such things but future use, sure. Thanks maxx
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH