Open Lwetter to Microsoft
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The catch is that after 3 years, when you lose start-up status, you either pay for the Full MSDN subscription, or you pay $100 and leave the program and never to come back again unless you pay the full subscription. I suppose you could "kill" your company and come back again as another startup.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I suppose you could "kill" your company and come back again as another startup.
well, duh
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I'm not a "startup". If anything, I'm an upstart. I'm just a guy that thinks MS's dev tools are priced way too frakking high.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
VS is the gold standard in IDEs. There is not an IDE to even compare with its poop and saying that is incredibly shaming to the industry. Eclipse is, at best, as worthless as a knife made of putty. Netbeans is not that much better, albeit it is and now that Oracle has bought SUN and for starters has completely destroyed the licensing for OpenSolaris, one can only wonder what will happen to NetBeans.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
In my life as a programmer on different OSes and IDEs, I have to disagree with that statement. In addition to VS, I have used Eclipse for Java, Netbeans for Java, XCode and IntelliJ Idea. I have always found that there are features in other IDEs which VS misses and vice-versa. Most programmers, when they switch IDEs, hate the switched IDE mainly because of the learning curve involved. At least, in my case once I started using the IDEs for complex projects, I can find that there is not much difference overall. The place where VS is extremely good is for starting toy and prototype applications quickly. But for most complex applications it does not yield a overall benefit. The refactoring capability in IntelliJ Idea, Eclipse and Netbeans is way better than that in VS without any add-ins.
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In my life as a programmer on different OSes and IDEs, I have to disagree with that statement. In addition to VS, I have used Eclipse for Java, Netbeans for Java, XCode and IntelliJ Idea. I have always found that there are features in other IDEs which VS misses and vice-versa. Most programmers, when they switch IDEs, hate the switched IDE mainly because of the learning curve involved. At least, in my case once I started using the IDEs for complex projects, I can find that there is not much difference overall. The place where VS is extremely good is for starting toy and prototype applications quickly. But for most complex applications it does not yield a overall benefit. The refactoring capability in IntelliJ Idea, Eclipse and Netbeans is way better than that in VS without any add-ins.
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In my life as a programmer on different OSes and IDEs, I have to disagree with that statement. In addition to VS, I have used Eclipse for Java, Netbeans for Java, XCode and IntelliJ Idea. I have always found that there are features in other IDEs which VS misses and vice-versa. Most programmers, when they switch IDEs, hate the switched IDE mainly because of the learning curve involved. At least, in my case once I started using the IDEs for complex projects, I can find that there is not much difference overall. The place where VS is extremely good is for starting toy and prototype applications quickly. But for most complex applications it does not yield a overall benefit. The refactoring capability in IntelliJ Idea, Eclipse and Netbeans is way better than that in VS without any add-ins.
For Java, I've used eclipse and netbeans extensively, and I so prefer the look and feel of eclipse over netbeans, however, I've found netbeans to be infinitely better. I've heard that IntelliJ Idea is really good but I haven't had the chance to try it, but judging by JetBrains' resharper product, I'm betting its REALLY good.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I have always found that there are features in other IDEs which VS misses and vice-versa.
Certainly, but how does that stop one IDE from generally being better than the others? VS, is certainly a RAD IDE and one that can help get code churned out really quickly for a prototype, and I find that that also adds to its value and also helps out in continuously churning out code.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
At least, in my case once I started using the IDEs for complex projects, I can find that there is not much difference overall.
On a large enough average, there is not much of a difference between a monkey and a human either Rama. You're right, Eclipse and Netbeans et al all have something in their favor, but VS, IMHO, remains the gold standard to be attained. And I'm considering this with VS being used along a spectrum of project types. I've used it for small, toy stuff and to a project that I still maintain that is a combination of 27 projects of several languages. I find that one of the biggest downfalls of Eclipse and Netbeans is their sluggishness. To you it might not be such a big issue, but it is to me. It is beyond annoying to wait for the IDE that is supposed to help you work faster.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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For Java, I've used eclipse and netbeans extensively, and I so prefer the look and feel of eclipse over netbeans, however, I've found netbeans to be infinitely better. I've heard that IntelliJ Idea is really good but I haven't had the chance to try it, but judging by JetBrains' resharper product, I'm betting its REALLY good.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I have always found that there are features in other IDEs which VS misses and vice-versa.
Certainly, but how does that stop one IDE from generally being better than the others? VS, is certainly a RAD IDE and one that can help get code churned out really quickly for a prototype, and I find that that also adds to its value and also helps out in continuously churning out code.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
At least, in my case once I started using the IDEs for complex projects, I can find that there is not much difference overall.
On a large enough average, there is not much of a difference between a monkey and a human either Rama. You're right, Eclipse and Netbeans et al all have something in their favor, but VS, IMHO, remains the gold standard to be attained. And I'm considering this with VS being used along a spectrum of project types. I've used it for small, toy stuff and to a project that I still maintain that is a combination of 27 projects of several languages. I find that one of the biggest downfalls of Eclipse and Netbeans is their sluggishness. To you it might not be such a big issue, but it is to me. It is beyond annoying to wait for the IDE that is supposed to help you work faster.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Eclipse and Netbeans is their sluggishnes
Long time back they were :) Since VS2005 days and Eclipse 3 days I do not see much difference for comparable projects. I am talking about Java dev in Eclipse and C# dev in VS2008. Eclipse works almost as fast as VS for me. In fact, I have found that Intellisense in Eclipse on an average is faster that VS and Eclipse looks at all packages (namespaces) which is again a plus. Anyway, that's my experience. I don't think any modern IDE (Eclipse, IntelliJ, VS and XCode) is way better than any other IDE. I am speaking only because I have used all IDEs to maintain and develop complex projects beyond samples.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Eclipse and Netbeans is their sluggishnes
Long time back they were :) Since VS2005 days and Eclipse 3 days I do not see much difference for comparable projects. I am talking about Java dev in Eclipse and C# dev in VS2008. Eclipse works almost as fast as VS for me. In fact, I have found that Intellisense in Eclipse on an average is faster that VS and Eclipse looks at all packages (namespaces) which is again a plus. Anyway, that's my experience. I don't think any modern IDE (Eclipse, IntelliJ, VS and XCode) is way better than any other IDE. I am speaking only because I have used all IDEs to maintain and develop complex projects beyond samples.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Long time back they were
They're certainly faster on Linux/FreeBSD than VS can hope to be.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Eclipse works almost as fast as VS for me. In fact, I have found that Intellisense in Eclipse on an average is faster that VS and Eclipse looks at all packages (namespaces) which is again a plus.
I'll need to give them another whirl in that case.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Anyway, that's my experience. I don't think any modern IDE (Eclipse, IntelliJ, VS and XCode) is way better than any other IDE. I am speaking only because I have used all IDEs to maintain and develop complex projects beyond samples.
Ditto here Rama, albeit I certainly don't have as extensive an experience as you do. Your knowledge in something is certainly, awe inspiring :)
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Long time back they were
They're certainly faster on Linux/FreeBSD than VS can hope to be.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Eclipse works almost as fast as VS for me. In fact, I have found that Intellisense in Eclipse on an average is faster that VS and Eclipse looks at all packages (namespaces) which is again a plus.
I'll need to give them another whirl in that case.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Anyway, that's my experience. I don't think any modern IDE (Eclipse, IntelliJ, VS and XCode) is way better than any other IDE. I am speaking only because I have used all IDEs to maintain and develop complex projects beyond samples.
Ditto here Rama, albeit I certainly don't have as extensive an experience as you do. Your knowledge in something is certainly, awe inspiring :)
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
On an off topic, I sent you an invite to join a Google Group but seems that you ignored it. Did you see it? Some of your old friends and people you miss are there.
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On an off topic, I sent you an invite to join a Google Group but seems that you ignored it. Did you see it? Some of your old friends and people you miss are there.
I did. I accepted it too, but it gave me this:
You cannot view the group's content or participate in the group because you are not currently a member. Membership is invite only.
You must be a member of this group to read its archive.
This group is invite only, so you may not apply for membership. However, you may contact the owner.
:confused: Should have emailed you about that. Sorry.
If the post was helpful, please vote, eh! Current activities: Book: Devils by Fyodor Dostoyevsky Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
You essentially have the market sewn up (I won't bother pointing out the problem I have with that).
And this is the root of their don't give a damn attitude - they don't have to anymore. Maybe if we all meditate and focus really hard, we can bring about the second coming of Philippe Kahn. And I'm only half joking.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
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