Thoughts on Flash
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I think I am lost now. In my example: Content = Message (subject, text, author date) Markup = HTML I can vary my content and generate similar markup in structure (same elements). I can vary my CSS and layout the HTML in different ways: as a grid or as a floating post-it notes. If I want to do the same thing in XAML, I will have to change my XAML (markup) to change the layout: from a grid panel to a dock panel or a stack panel. Whatever you can achieve via XAML is already achievable in HTML (even without using CSS for layouts). CSS for layouts is not even a requirement.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
In my example: Content = Message (subject, text, author date) Markup = HTML
In my example, the XAML snippet would correspond to your CSS, not HTML. All I am saying is that CSS is a bad solution when it comes to defining layout. Something with a similar role but better syntax (XAML-like, for instance) would serve the purpose much better.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
CSS for layouts is not even a requirement.
As I said, CSS for colors, fonts etc is fine. It is its support for layout that is broken.
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Yeah, that I do agree with that. I do think MS has been better about backwards compatibility than Apple. It probably stems more from the fact MS is more business orientated, and so they have little choice. However, MS also wished they didn't have to that. They can't make Windows as lean and mean as they'd like because of this very reason. Whereas Apple said screw it, we're going lean and mean. Personally, I can see value in both directions. And, it works if you also upgrade hardware in conjunction with software. But that can be expensive, and so I can see some companies not wishing to do that.
Jeremy Falcon
How many times have you seen Apple running a business critical application?
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
I am biased here because I love CSS (because I spent lot of time learning/understanding it in detail).
100% agreed on that man. I think people that hate CSS the most just don't know it. I will never, ever go back to the old way. I can't stand seeing cluttered HTML now.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I think people that hate CSS the most just don't know it.
Oh, fine. However, I do tend to invest my time into a good technology: I use vim, C++, gdb, Unix shell, svn from command line; they are hard to learn, but give reward for the time and effort I invested. I feel learning CSS was a complete waste of time for me - it just makes my life harder rather than easier.
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How many times have you seen Apple running a business critical application?
Michel Godfroid wrote:
How many times have you seen Apple running a business critical application?
Does solitaire count? I know a lot of people I've worked with rely on that for day-to-day operations. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
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Michel Godfroid wrote:
How many times have you seen Apple running a business critical application?
Does solitaire count? I know a lot of people I've worked with rely on that for day-to-day operations. :-D
Jeremy Falcon
You have solitaire on the Mac? Gimme Plzzzz Urgentz!!!!
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
In my example: Content = Message (subject, text, author date) Markup = HTML
In my example, the XAML snippet would correspond to your CSS, not HTML. All I am saying is that CSS is a bad solution when it comes to defining layout. Something with a similar role but better syntax (XAML-like, for instance) would serve the purpose much better.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
CSS for layouts is not even a requirement.
As I said, CSS for colors, fonts etc is fine. It is its support for layout that is broken.
Your original post was you prefer XAML over HTML + CSS + JS combination. All I am saying is HTML + CSS + JS combination is more flexible than the XAML approach. It can do everything XAML can do and much more. Even performance is getting better.
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I just hope that Flash dies completely (maybe at the hands of HTML5?), on the PC as well. Much like Java has - when almost everyone used to say that it would live forever.
harold aptroot wrote:
Much like Java has
Java hasn't died at all in the enterprise market. Not that I'm a huge Java fan, but it's not dead.
Jeremy Falcon
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
In my example: Content = Message (subject, text, author date) Markup = HTML
In my example, the XAML snippet would correspond to your CSS, not HTML. All I am saying is that CSS is a bad solution when it comes to defining layout. Something with a similar role but better syntax (XAML-like, for instance) would serve the purpose much better.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
CSS for layouts is not even a requirement.
As I said, CSS for colors, fonts etc is fine. It is its support for layout that is broken.
Also funny is that at one point you did criticize XAML based UIs :). Now Microsoft has changed you a lot. Not that there is anything bad with it :).
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Your original post was you prefer XAML over HTML + CSS + JS combination. All I am saying is HTML + CSS + JS combination is more flexible than the XAML approach. It can do everything XAML can do and much more. Even performance is getting better.
My original post is that I don't like the HTML + CSS + JS combination and wished for something like open XAML. Admittedly, that would fix only the "CSS for layout" part of the HTML + CSS + JS combo which is bad in much more than one way :-D
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Also funny is that at one point you did criticize XAML based UIs :). Now Microsoft has changed you a lot. Not that there is anything bad with it :).
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Also funny is that at one point you did criticize XAML based UIs
No, I criticized XML based frameworks in general, and undocumented ones in particular (still can't stand them). XAML is not a framework - it is simply the best way I know of to define UI layout.
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I think people that hate CSS the most just don't know it.
Oh, fine. However, I do tend to invest my time into a good technology: I use vim, C++, gdb, Unix shell, svn from command line; they are hard to learn, but give reward for the time and effort I invested. I feel learning CSS was a complete waste of time for me - it just makes my life harder rather than easier.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
it just makes my life harder rather than easier.
That's how I feel about most of the *nix skllz I have :) Can you say make, grep/sed, and DNS configuration?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
it just makes my life harder rather than easier.
That's how I feel about most of the *nix skllz I have :) Can you say make, grep/sed, and DNS configuration?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Jim Crafton wrote:
Can you say make, grep/sed, and DNS configuration
You'll notice I didn't mention make among the hard to learn but rewarding technologies :) grep, on the other hand is pretty easy and useful. Why don't you like it? Or is it only in combination with sed?
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Can you say make, grep/sed, and DNS configuration
You'll notice I didn't mention make among the hard to learn but rewarding technologies :) grep, on the other hand is pretty easy and useful. Why don't you like it? Or is it only in combination with sed?
actually, grep isn't too bad. It's sed that I find annoying. I don't use it enough to remember all the pattern matching syntax, and the syntax for replacing things. And then once I do get it to work, it's a virtually unreadable morass of "/" and "\" characters. It powerful, but it feels like using a gatling gun to do weeding.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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harold aptroot wrote:
Much like Java has
Java hasn't died at all in the enterprise market. Not that I'm a huge Java fan, but it's not dead.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Java hasn't died at all in the enterprise market.
Which is an other way of saying that it's dead. COBOL hasn't died - in the economic sector. Remember almost every site used to have a Java applet even if it was just to make a funky menu that took an hour to load?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Java hasn't died at all in the enterprise market.
Which is an other way of saying that it's dead. COBOL hasn't died - in the economic sector. Remember almost every site used to have a Java applet even if it was just to make a funky menu that took an hour to load?
harold aptroot wrote:
Remember almost every site used to have a Java apple
No I don't. The Applet did not take off that well.
harold aptroot wrote:
Which is an other way of saying that it's dead. COBOL hasn't died - in the economic sector.
No one does any new development in COBOL. There are lot of places where new Java development goes on: Web applications, Clouds, Enterprise Client/Server software and last but not least J2ME phones. Just because you are out of touch with the Java world does not mean it is dead.
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Thoughts on Flash[^] by Steve Jobs Love him or hate him but IMHO he's got this one right. Thoughts?
Having just had an episode where my cursor kept disappearing and reappearing while using Aperture (yeah, on a Mac) because I had a Flickr slideshow (implemented in….oh yeah, Flash) open in a minimized Safari window, I totally concur with Jobso's opinion of Flash...
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!
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Not jumping into bed with flash is one thing. But is apple still preventing other browsers like SkyFire from running on their sacred products? Skyfire can run tons of flash apps on my winmo phone.
Nope - you can get Opera Mini for the iPhone.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!
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harold aptroot wrote:
Remember almost every site used to have a Java apple
No I don't. The Applet did not take off that well.
harold aptroot wrote:
Which is an other way of saying that it's dead. COBOL hasn't died - in the economic sector.
No one does any new development in COBOL. There are lot of places where new Java development goes on: Web applications, Clouds, Enterprise Client/Server software and last but not least J2ME phones. Just because you are out of touch with the Java world does not mean it is dead.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Just because you are out of touch with the Java world does not mean it is dead.
Actually it does - if there is so little Java that I do not even encounter it without trying to avoid it, that means it has become a niche thing. And therefore dead. Like COBOL.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
No I don't. The Applet did not take off that well.
Perhaps you didn't frequent the same parts of the 'net that I did.. Besides the whole discussion is only about applets anyway. I wouldn't see some crappy phone app as a competitor to Flash.
modified on Thursday, April 29, 2010 2:18 PM
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Thoughts on Flash[^] by Steve Jobs Love him or hate him but IMHO he's got this one right. Thoughts?
Flash is the number 1 reason for Macs to crash? I thought Macs didn't crash, wasn't that the marketing spinning against PCs? Yeah, open platforms. :laugh: Open is fine as long Steve controls the door, the key, the material each are made of, what color they can be... I thought a free market economy meant that if a product was not successful the company would adjust or fail. Hey, Steve remember when Bill had to bail you out?
I know the language. I've read a book. - _Madmatt
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Thoughts on Flash[^] by Steve Jobs Love him or hate him but IMHO he's got this one right. Thoughts?
You mean "Steve Jobs Thoughts on Flash?" Flash is great. From the perspective of a tweener, creating content is not only just fun but has the potential to waste a lot of time (which means that ACTUALLY IS fun). As far as being right though, standardizing fun might be a bigger waste of time. And not actually fun at all.