Open source advice/recommendations...
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Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
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Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
(C) How much would you pay for a WinForms Framework? Paying customers expect further development and support. Selling software to developers is especially hard. Would your project really generate enough money to accept such a bind? (D) For most projects, that's redundant with (B) Open Source projects are nothing without dedicated developers. So it's basically B or C, but without the money, and all the business crapola.
Tyron Harford wrote:
By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from
That's the point of open source, isn't it?
Tyron Harford wrote:
I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own
With every cooperative approahc there will be leeches, people who live of the providers without giving back. It's an occupational hazard of being good. There are ways to keep it limited - if you are willing to invest in tracking it down. If you value your code more than your ego, I'd still say it's a good idea to publish the code and play around with it when you are bored. beats Minesweeper.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server. -
Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
Most serious developers have one of these, mine started in the mid 90s and I pinched the core idea from another developer, it has been rewritten many times and changed languages twice, I would not consider publishing it. The support requirements, especially with developers as clients, will kill you. Open source it and then ignore it because you are not interested/committed or don't have the time, this is a complete waste of everyones time. I think (A) is your only choice, you are basically not interested in the app anymore but feel it is a valid learning tool for other. You have no strong interest in supporting or extending your framework (someone will ask for a WPF version with the first week and a bug you accept a client will not) so it is pretty much dead.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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(C) How much would you pay for a WinForms Framework? Paying customers expect further development and support. Selling software to developers is especially hard. Would your project really generate enough money to accept such a bind? (D) For most projects, that's redundant with (B) Open Source projects are nothing without dedicated developers. So it's basically B or C, but without the money, and all the business crapola.
Tyron Harford wrote:
By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from
That's the point of open source, isn't it?
Tyron Harford wrote:
I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own
With every cooperative approahc there will be leeches, people who live of the providers without giving back. It's an occupational hazard of being good. There are ways to keep it limited - if you are willing to invest in tracking it down. If you value your code more than your ego, I'd still say it's a good idea to publish the code and play around with it when you are bored. beats Minesweeper.
Agh! Reality! My Archnemesis![^]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server.Cheers for the reply! Selling it ================== I guess I wouldn't pay a whole lot for a WinForms framework - but it would depend on the audience. Larger organizations still use WinForms applications, and my one can use WPF as well and there is the potential to host it in an XBAP. Still not the web 100% and would still only be useful for an internal facing solution or maybe for external contractors type thing. If I went down that road (C - selling) I'd need to have a business model, support desk - all that stuff. Now that doesn't really bother me, but at this juncture in my life, I'm not actually sure that's the path I want to go down. I'm not entirely sure of that path yet, but I know this isn't it. Open source ================== I'd work on it time to time, but not 100% - would still post fixes, upgrades and such but not on a full time basis. I'm leaning towards open source, and you hit it right on the spot - if I value my code more than my ego. No one has mentioned that to me before, and that hits the money I reckon. It's a changing target I reckon - I used to value the code more than the ego, but as time goes on, your ego can get bigger. Keeping that in check can be difficult at times! As another post said - open sourcing it and not doing any development, is a complete waste of time. People will ask questions and it makes sense to support it, if only as much as you can.
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Most serious developers have one of these, mine started in the mid 90s and I pinched the core idea from another developer, it has been rewritten many times and changed languages twice, I would not consider publishing it. The support requirements, especially with developers as clients, will kill you. Open source it and then ignore it because you are not interested/committed or don't have the time, this is a complete waste of everyones time. I think (A) is your only choice, you are basically not interested in the app anymore but feel it is a valid learning tool for other. You have no strong interest in supporting or extending your framework (someone will ask for a WPF version with the first week and a bug you accept a client will not) so it is pretty much dead.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
It's good to know that! I don't know of many other developers that undertake a massive project in their spare time, so it's good to know there are other developers out there that do this kinda thing! I'm not sure about the not being interested or extending the framework (it does support WinForms and WPF - the framework/shell is in WinForms, but the business screens can be either WinForms or WPF). It's giving me something to think about though - if I support it, at least to some degree, I think open source is the best way to go. If I don't support it at all, then leaving it on the computer is probably the best way to go, and only working on it from time to time. As the other dude said - beats Minesweeper!
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Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
extending from the good replies, I like option 'D', with a modifier - find someone else who values your work and ideas, and to help you maintain it so you dont get bogged down with support requests - it sounds like it would be a great learning tool for someone, so the value in sharing knowledge would be a contribution - or just release it 'as is' and people can do what they want with it, and ignore requests for extensions/changes .. either way, if you decide you dont want to sell it, you win by contributing back to the community I work (outside of my day job) with a small group of IT professionals who do sub-contracts on various IT things - there must be professionals in your area (where in NZ ?) that are 'like-minded' [edit] missed a bit here [/edit] that you can bounce ideas off - typically we have a business type person who if he sees commercial value encourages us to not release IP of certain things .. 'g'
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extending from the good replies, I like option 'D', with a modifier - find someone else who values your work and ideas, and to help you maintain it so you dont get bogged down with support requests - it sounds like it would be a great learning tool for someone, so the value in sharing knowledge would be a contribution - or just release it 'as is' and people can do what they want with it, and ignore requests for extensions/changes .. either way, if you decide you dont want to sell it, you win by contributing back to the community I work (outside of my day job) with a small group of IT professionals who do sub-contracts on various IT things - there must be professionals in your area (where in NZ ?) that are 'like-minded' [edit] missed a bit here [/edit] that you can bounce ideas off - typically we have a business type person who if he sees commercial value encourages us to not release IP of certain things .. 'g'
Thanks man, I'm starting to think of heading down this road. In the coming years, I'll be completely changing careers and I guess I want to contribute some what to the community before I completely stop. May be a hit, may not be, but it does have some really cool things in there I've learnt over the years. And it's a risk you have to take by open sourcing - other people take this risk on huge projects as well. Some people may rip your code. But I guess it's like teaching - if you can reach just one person, and that person can learn and grow - then I think it's worth it. I don't know of many developers that I'd entrust this to in Tauranga (Bay of Plenty in NZ). It is a HUGE project - its enterprise size software. I wouldn't release it as-is - the project is about 95% complete, and I'll be finishing it in the next month. Just write up some doco, some articles for CodeProject and I think I'll post it up. Last time I did this, I wrote one article on the entire project - and that was a bit silly. There are so many aspects of this project, I really needed to write individual articles about the core functionality - which I'll do this time round. Thanks for the advice though!
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Thanks man, I'm starting to think of heading down this road. In the coming years, I'll be completely changing careers and I guess I want to contribute some what to the community before I completely stop. May be a hit, may not be, but it does have some really cool things in there I've learnt over the years. And it's a risk you have to take by open sourcing - other people take this risk on huge projects as well. Some people may rip your code. But I guess it's like teaching - if you can reach just one person, and that person can learn and grow - then I think it's worth it. I don't know of many developers that I'd entrust this to in Tauranga (Bay of Plenty in NZ). It is a HUGE project - its enterprise size software. I wouldn't release it as-is - the project is about 95% complete, and I'll be finishing it in the next month. Just write up some doco, some articles for CodeProject and I think I'll post it up. Last time I did this, I wrote one article on the entire project - and that was a bit silly. There are so many aspects of this project, I really needed to write individual articles about the core functionality - which I'll do this time round. Thanks for the advice though!
Tyron Harford wrote:
Tauranga (Bay of Plenty in NZ).
cool - I was actually born in Wairoa, south east of there !!
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Tyron Harford wrote:
Tauranga (Bay of Plenty in NZ).
cool - I was actually born in Wairoa, south east of there !!
Yep - know where that is! Been there a couple times, usually just as a joyride on the motorbike, head through the gorge via Gisborne and come back Napier way. Some nice scenery down there, done most of NZ on the bike, but haven't been around the East Cape yet.
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Thanks man, I'm starting to think of heading down this road. In the coming years, I'll be completely changing careers and I guess I want to contribute some what to the community before I completely stop. May be a hit, may not be, but it does have some really cool things in there I've learnt over the years. And it's a risk you have to take by open sourcing - other people take this risk on huge projects as well. Some people may rip your code. But I guess it's like teaching - if you can reach just one person, and that person can learn and grow - then I think it's worth it. I don't know of many developers that I'd entrust this to in Tauranga (Bay of Plenty in NZ). It is a HUGE project - its enterprise size software. I wouldn't release it as-is - the project is about 95% complete, and I'll be finishing it in the next month. Just write up some doco, some articles for CodeProject and I think I'll post it up. Last time I did this, I wrote one article on the entire project - and that was a bit silly. There are so many aspects of this project, I really needed to write individual articles about the core functionality - which I'll do this time round. Thanks for the advice though!
Tyron Harford wrote:
some articles for CodeProject and I think I'll post it up
I think this is your best solution, you are giving back to the community, the project may be picked up by an enthusiastic supporter and you have limited commitment to support/extend. Mind you, a series of articles is no small commitment :-D I look forward to it!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
You could open source it with a license that expressly forbids rebranding and reselling of the framework itself (use/modfication OK of course). Check out CSLA.NET - basically the same idea, and the guy who did that (Rockford Lhokta) sells books on how to use it, so probably makes a little money off the open source framework that way. I use CSLA, am a fan - and I buy the new book editions when they come out.
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Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
A and D are not mutually exclusive. Actually D will make A more interesting as you will get feedback form real users.
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Hey there, Hope this is the right place for a question like this, not programming related but more advice than anything else! Basically my story goes like this, about 2/3 years ago, I released this project onto CodeProject and CodePlex. It was somewhat of a hit, but was unfinished. The app is basically a WinForms framework - has everything you need to write a business application. What would take you 3 months, this lets you do the same thing in about a week. Really cool app and it's taken me about 5 years in my spare time to build the thing. After doing certain things and spending quite a while in IT, I've kinda become disillusioned about the whole IT industry (that's another topic). Still love programming, but really just as a hobby. My question is this - if you guys had written this project in your spare time (of which the goal was to learn) and you had used several open source libraries in your project, what would you do? I see me going down a couple roads: - (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing. - (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out). - (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex. I'm split between A or D. B isn't that nice looking considering I've spent over 5 years on this project. C - well thats another story. In order to sell something, I believe you need to go at it 110%. My mind just isn't in that area. I'm not real money focused and I believe knowledge belongs to the people. I've learnt what I know from the open source community, and to sell it without giving back just doesn't seem right. So what about D then? Well, I'm very keen to go down that road, but I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own. I'm not too keen on that idea at all. By putting it open source, it's putting the knowledge out there, but in a fully usable framework that people can learn from. I wouldn't do major active development on it though as I feel I've reached the end of the road on this project. 5+ years is a long time working on the same project! So there it is - just wondering your guys thoughts on something like this really!
Tyron Harford wrote:
- (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing.
Both options are essentially the same... what good is a program if it is lying around on your PC?
Tyron Harford wrote:
- (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out).
I think it would be a tough sell; Think, not twice, but many times before taking this route... can you afford to keep a dedicated sales and support team for this?
Tyron Harford wrote:
- (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex.
Since you have put in so much time into it, why not let others benefit from it? IMHO, open sourcing it may well make sense in your case.
Tyron Harford wrote:
I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own
I would suggest that you consider releasing it under the GPL license. The GPL license actually makes it difficult to copy someone's code and get away with it. And software developers tend to have a strong sense of justice: if someone does fork it out, re-brands it, and then tries to sell it, it may not have many takers. I would even venture to say that GPL may actually be the best way to go if you want to protect your program. Let it go and watch it come back to you! Regards, ~Najeeb Shaikh (www.mnemonicfs.org, www.codeminima.com)
Najeeb Shaikh
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Tyron Harford wrote:
- (A) Leave it on my computer, play around when bored type thing. - (B) Delete it. Forgot about the whole thing.
Both options are essentially the same... what good is a program if it is lying around on your PC?
Tyron Harford wrote:
- (C) Sell it (ripping open source parts out).
I think it would be a tough sell; Think, not twice, but many times before taking this route... can you afford to keep a dedicated sales and support team for this?
Tyron Harford wrote:
- (D) Open source it. Put on CodePlex.
Since you have put in so much time into it, why not let others benefit from it? IMHO, open sourcing it may well make sense in your case.
Tyron Harford wrote:
I'm worried about someone taking the project, rebranding it and calling it their own
I would suggest that you consider releasing it under the GPL license. The GPL license actually makes it difficult to copy someone's code and get away with it. And software developers tend to have a strong sense of justice: if someone does fork it out, re-brands it, and then tries to sell it, it may not have many takers. I would even venture to say that GPL may actually be the best way to go if you want to protect your program. Let it go and watch it come back to you! Regards, ~Najeeb Shaikh (www.mnemonicfs.org, www.codeminima.com)
Najeeb Shaikh
Thanks man, I've just uploaded the article (took ages to create - its a big article!), but I'll just have to wait and see how it goes. Thanks to yourself and everyone else for replying though, open source is really the way to go for this project I think!