Speaking in 'toungues'
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
omniscience and omnipotence
A small difficulty for most gods here - omniscience and omnipotence are actually mutually exclusive. If you know everything that will happen, ever, then your ability to change things means that you didn't really know in the first place... Sorry, did I just mess with your head? :laugh:
No, it made perfect sense, and I have in fact argued the same thing a while back. You can't have both, or either, and remain internally consistent.
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Christian Graus wrote:
They are not Christians at all. A Christian, at the point of conversion, speaks in tongues. That's what the Bible says. They are not deliberately fake, they are simply religious without being Christians.
15He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Did you do all of those other things as well?
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Ah, so you think the speaker doesnt actually know what he is saying? Hmm, that is bizare. What is the point then? As you say, surely thinking, or saying it in ones normal language is more meaningful. They could just be reciting his shopping list. They would never know. Is that devout worship?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
They could just be reciting his shopping list. They would never know.
I have to respond to this. This might be the funniest point I have ever heard about this subject. Seriously brilliant.
If I have accidentally said something witty, smart, or correct, it is purely by mistake and I apologize for it.
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No, it made perfect sense, and I have in fact argued the same thing a while back. You can't have both, or either, and remain internally consistent.
Very true... Omniscience: Knowing the past and present can be internally consistent, but knowing the future is not. If you work on the "fate" hypothesis, where everything is preordained, then you can know your future actions and thus act differently. If you work on the "butterfly effect" hypothesis, then merely knowing the future makes that knowledge mostly invalid (The act of learning about it changes it). Omnipotence: Easy... The old saying... "Can you make a stone so heavy that you yourself can't lift it?" So either one leads to paradox.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
(char)rnd.NextInt((int)'a',(int)'z');(Yeah, I know that's not correct code, but you get the point)Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
fat_boy wrote:
I always associated this behaviour with fairly stupid people.
No one is so paranoid as to not be to be duped by something in their life. While I have mocked them myself because I found it pretty funny I wouldn't pick an argument just so I could bash them.
fat_boy wrote:
How can these people seriously think this is a language spoken by god?
They have faith and have provided themselves with nonscientific proof.
fat_boy wrote:
So, come on you gibbering religious types, got any proof that you arent completely bonkers? Can you provide a dictionary and if not why not? You make an audible sound, why cant it be represented by any of the 46 or so common phonemes and written down?
Did you only start this thread to be insidiary and combative?
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Christian Graus wrote:
They are not Christians at all. A Christian, at the point of conversion, speaks in tongues. That's what the Bible says. They are not deliberately fake, they are simply religious without being Christians.
15He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Did you do all of those other things as well?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
to all creation
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
So you can baptize a plant?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues
So the plants and cats and stuff are going to speak new tongues? (Unless the new tongue is just English. Afetr all, at the time it would be a new tongue.)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Did you do all of those other things as well?
Now you are just being clever! After all, if you dont drink deadly poison you arent a christian, despite what the snake handlilng people say, or the tongue gibbers say! :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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He got religion? :) I rekon he just tapped away rabndomly at his key board: Ahtksauy hskweir cnsklsjfp nsbwgtropt.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Did you do all of those other things as well?
Man, your parents must be so proud... and bald, or grey, or both.
Josh Gray wrote:
Man, your parents must be so proud... and bald, or grey, or both.
What do you mean? :confused:
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Hmm: couldn't find the one I used earlier so try this one: Random Gibberish Generator[^] I normally use Lorem Ipsum[^] to generate some pseudo-latin to mimic text on pages where I don't yet know what is required.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
to all creation
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
So you can baptize a plant?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues
So the plants and cats and stuff are going to speak new tongues? (Unless the new tongue is just English. Afetr all, at the time it would be a new tongue.)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Did you do all of those other things as well?
Now you are just being clever! After all, if you dont drink deadly poison you arent a christian, despite what the snake handlilng people say, or the tongue gibbers say! :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Of course. I can think of nothing more ignorant of scripture than a fig tree.
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Well, he didn't put much thought into it. I invented my own (partial) language for my novels, and it's a lot of bloody work :) Ironically, even though I invented the language, I'm not even close to fluent in it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
fat_boy wrote:
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Of course. I can think of nothing more ignorant of scripture than a fig tree.
Mind you, that would take a special tongue to preach to a fig tree, and really, what is the benefit? Its not like its going to change the earth is it if the tree suddenly believes Christ is the saviour of man. Perhaps being used as wedding tackle cover is all its cut out for?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Josh Gray wrote:
Man, your parents must be so proud... and bald, or grey, or both.
What do you mean? :confused:
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(char)rnd.NextInt((int)'a',(int)'z');(Yeah, I know that's not correct code, but you get the point)Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
What do you mean?
I was just impressed with your response to Christian. Take no prisoners young man!
Josh Gray wrote:
I was just impressed with your response to Christian. Take no prisoners young man!
Oh, OK! :) Are they bald and/or grey because I'm so stressful to be related to? ;P
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes. There are people in my church who prayed to God for salvation, spoke in tongues, had no idea what it meant, and found our church.
So they were not familiar with the bible passages that refer to speaking in tongues?
Some of them were not. I can't speak for them all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.