Speaking in 'toungues'
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No, it made perfect sense, and I have in fact argued the same thing a while back. You can't have both, or either, and remain internally consistent.
Very true... Omniscience: Knowing the past and present can be internally consistent, but knowing the future is not. If you work on the "fate" hypothesis, where everything is preordained, then you can know your future actions and thus act differently. If you work on the "butterfly effect" hypothesis, then merely knowing the future makes that knowledge mostly invalid (The act of learning about it changes it). Omnipotence: Easy... The old saying... "Can you make a stone so heavy that you yourself can't lift it?" So either one leads to paradox.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
(char)rnd.NextInt((int)'a',(int)'z');(Yeah, I know that's not correct code, but you get the point)Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
fat_boy wrote:
I always associated this behaviour with fairly stupid people.
No one is so paranoid as to not be to be duped by something in their life. While I have mocked them myself because I found it pretty funny I wouldn't pick an argument just so I could bash them.
fat_boy wrote:
How can these people seriously think this is a language spoken by god?
They have faith and have provided themselves with nonscientific proof.
fat_boy wrote:
So, come on you gibbering religious types, got any proof that you arent completely bonkers? Can you provide a dictionary and if not why not? You make an audible sound, why cant it be represented by any of the 46 or so common phonemes and written down?
Did you only start this thread to be insidiary and combative?
That's called seagull management (or sometimes pigeon management)... Fly in, flap your arms and squawk a lot, crap all over everything and fly out again... by _Damian S_
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Christian Graus wrote:
They are not Christians at all. A Christian, at the point of conversion, speaks in tongues. That's what the Bible says. They are not deliberately fake, they are simply religious without being Christians.
15He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.” Did you do all of those other things as well?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
to all creation
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
So you can baptize a plant?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues
So the plants and cats and stuff are going to speak new tongues? (Unless the new tongue is just English. Afetr all, at the time it would be a new tongue.)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Did you do all of those other things as well?
Now you are just being clever! After all, if you dont drink deadly poison you arent a christian, despite what the snake handlilng people say, or the tongue gibbers say! :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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He got religion? :) I rekon he just tapped away rabndomly at his key board: Ahtksauy hskweir cnsklsjfp nsbwgtropt.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Did you do all of those other things as well?
Man, your parents must be so proud... and bald, or grey, or both.
Josh Gray wrote:
Man, your parents must be so proud... and bald, or grey, or both.
What do you mean? :confused:
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Hmm: couldn't find the one I used earlier so try this one: Random Gibberish Generator[^] I normally use Lorem Ipsum[^] to generate some pseudo-latin to mimic text on pages where I don't yet know what is required.
me, me, me "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program. And if we become extinct because we don't have a space program, it'll serve us right!" Larry Niven nils illegitimus carborundum
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
to all creation
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
So you can baptize a plant?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues
So the plants and cats and stuff are going to speak new tongues? (Unless the new tongue is just English. Afetr all, at the time it would be a new tongue.)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Did you do all of those other things as well?
Now you are just being clever! After all, if you dont drink deadly poison you arent a christian, despite what the snake handlilng people say, or the tongue gibbers say! :)
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Of course. I can think of nothing more ignorant of scripture than a fig tree.
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Well, he didn't put much thought into it. I invented my own (partial) language for my novels, and it's a lot of bloody work :) Ironically, even though I invented the language, I'm not even close to fluent in it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
fat_boy wrote:
What, to plants, and cats and stuff?
Of course. I can think of nothing more ignorant of scripture than a fig tree.
Mind you, that would take a special tongue to preach to a fig tree, and really, what is the benefit? Its not like its going to change the earth is it if the tree suddenly believes Christ is the saviour of man. Perhaps being used as wedding tackle cover is all its cut out for?
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Josh Gray wrote:
Man, your parents must be so proud... and bald, or grey, or both.
What do you mean? :confused:
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(char)rnd.NextInt((int)'a',(int)'z');(Yeah, I know that's not correct code, but you get the point)Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
What do you mean?
I was just impressed with your response to Christian. Take no prisoners young man!
Josh Gray wrote:
I was just impressed with your response to Christian. Take no prisoners young man!
Oh, OK! :) Are they bald and/or grey because I'm so stressful to be related to? ;P
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes. There are people in my church who prayed to God for salvation, spoke in tongues, had no idea what it meant, and found our church.
So they were not familiar with the bible passages that refer to speaking in tongues?
Some of them were not. I can't speak for them all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
The point is entirely that we are given the words we need to speak.
No the point is why would you need to speak them?
Well, this is the age old story of deciding there can't be a God b/c He doesn't do things the way we would like. The Bible says that God gives us the worlds to speak because we don't know what we should pray for. If being given the words to pray benefits God, or us, the Bible is not clear. Why we should need to pray the things we don't know for, instead of just saying 'and don't forget the stuff I don't know', is also not clear except that by the very act, we're reminded that we don't know enough to know all the things we should be asking for or seeking, all the time. Speaking in tongues, according to the Bible, builds up our faith and keeps us in God's love.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
The brain is chemical, but this sort of diagnosis and over examination is the self defeating. It allows people who reject God to try to take some sort of high moral ground, while simultaneously have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Given that God made my brain, why should I, with the limited human understanding of how it works, tell Him how it MUST work, for Him to exist ?
I respectfully disagree. God didn't make the brain, evolution did and there's plenty of evidence to back that up. Even if he did, though, that would just mean that he "hardcoded" speaking in tongues into the brain - then why aren't we all speaking in tongues?
harold aptroot wrote:
God didn't make the brain, evolution did and there's plenty of evidence to back that up
Not really. There's plenty of stuff we interpret that way, in the framework of what we generally believe. In that sense, we're no different to the people who held opposing views in the past.
harold aptroot wrote:
Even if he did, though, that would just mean that he "hardcoded" speaking in tongues into the brain - then why aren't we all speaking in tongues?
Speaking in tongues is not hard coded in the brain at all. You're making the ongoing mistake of trying to reduce God to be constrained by your thought processes, and to reason a way to try to prove He can't exist. It doesn't work, that is, it's not a reliable proof at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Well, this is the age old story of deciding there can't be a God b/c He doesn't do things the way we would like. The Bible says that God gives us the worlds to speak because we don't know what we should pray for. If being given the words to pray benefits God, or us, the Bible is not clear. Why we should need to pray the things we don't know for, instead of just saying 'and don't forget the stuff I don't know', is also not clear except that by the very act, we're reminded that we don't know enough to know all the things we should be asking for or seeking, all the time. Speaking in tongues, according to the Bible, builds up our faith and keeps us in God's love.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, this is the age old story of deciding there can't be a God b/c He doesn't do things the way we would like. The Bible says that God gives us the worlds to speak because we don't know what we should pray for. If being given the words to pray benefits God, or us, the Bible is not clear. Why we should need to pray the things we don't know for, instead of just saying 'and don't forget the stuff I don't know', is also not clear except that by the very act, we're reminded that we don't know enough to know all the things we should be asking for or seeking, all the time. Speaking in tongues, according to the Bible, builds up our faith and keeps us in God's love. Christian Graus
Wow