My Ignorance
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brianwelsch wrote: I'd rather something a bit more positive. Ahh good point :) You want a well meaning, "goal in mind" discussion site. Something with positive and well informed discussions but which does not just become an endless blizzard of discussions. Generally the world organisation sites are depressingly single minded and the non-affiliated sites are depressingly pesimistic. Either everything is hunky dory (but we still need your donations so phone now!) or everything is in a hand basket on the fast checkout lane down in hell.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaRay Cassick wrote:
Well I am not female, not gay and I am not Paul WatsonPaul Watson wrote: Something with positive and well informed discussions but which does not just become an endless blizzard of discussions. Sounds crazy, huh? It's obviously impossible to not have meaningless flames and passionate patriotic nonsense be spewed, but overall, yes I'm thinking of a place for reasonable people to discuss just exactly what the hell is going in the world, and how could we possibly make it a bit better. The big flaw with this is people with no internet connection still are left out of the discussion, but you can't reach everyone. Paul Watson wrote: Either everything is hunky dory (but we still need your donations so phone now!) :laugh: "..and after my Filet Mignon and Lobster dinner, I go and video the starving children of the village. See how depressing, you must send your donations immediately. We will be sure that at least 5% of your generous donation makes it to helping the children. Thank You and God Bless." BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Yep, it is largely a case of sour grapes, coupled with a feeling of frustration that the citizens of this super-country are largely so ignorant of the rest of us. I suppose we feel that with the power goes responsibility (not trying to sound like spiderman :-O )
Deploying a web application without understanding security is roughly equivalent to driving a car without seatbelts - down a slippery road, over a monstrous chasm, with no brakes, and the throttle jammed on full.
Hacking Exposed - Web Applications. Joel Scambray & Mike Shema
Megan Forbes wrote: ... feeling of frustration that the citizens of this super-country are largely so ignorant of the rest of us. Which is why I say it's a good thing for Americans to spend some time outside of the U.S. Join the military, get stationed overseas. Take part in a foreign exchange program, etc. I lived in Frankfurt, Germany for 2 years. You get to see things from a different perspective. I found that there were many things Germany excelled in over the U.S. (Public Health care, maternity leave, road construction technology and materials, etc. although at the expense of an extremely high income tax rate and a 14% federal sales tax.) At the same time however, I found that the U.S. was *much* better in some areas. The point is that we are *not* the best in everything. -Sean ---- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -- Albert Einstein. I saw a woman wearing a sweatshirt with 'Guess' on it. I said, "Thyroid problem?" -- Emo Philips. Love is two minutes, 52 seconds of squishing noises. -- Johnny Rotten.
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Colin Davies wrote: when the LA riots broke out Which riots? (Seriously...) -- Russell Morris "Have you gone mad Frink? Put down that science pole!"
LA riots: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22LA+riots%22
Know Jesus, no peace. No Jesus, know peace.
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
Hey Folks, I have a bit of a thought on this and, hope it is not too far off. First let me preface this by saying that my first position upon graduating collage required me to travel about 300 days a year outside of the US. I did this for almost four and a half years. I have spent considerable time in the South Pacific, Western Europe, Israel, and SE Asia. And believe me, I loved it. To me, the possible root of the problems is that many of us here in the US don't see ourselves as a part of the world community. And, I believe that this may stem from the fact that many of us don't travel much outside the states. I know that many young military people are required to travel. But, these guys aren't often the best ambassadors of our country. Having seen many of these boys in action in South Korea and Japan I am reminded of the phrase "Young dumb and full of cum." And sure, many young, well to do collage kids "backpack" through Europe, but somehow I don't think living la'bohem for 3 months really does enough to gain a sense of community. And of course, we can't forget the occasional tourist. While not a bad thing, many of the folks do nothing to research local customs and lifestyles. And, are often guilty of eating at the god forsaken Hard Rock Café. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to offer. :( But, somehow Americans need to get out and interact with the rest of the world. Not as customers/consumers but as someone who just wants to enjoy what the rest of the world has to offer. To me, this seems like the real long term solution. Personally, my family continues to vacation outside the US(just got back from Peru :)). Just my opinion Chris Austin
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Hey Folks, I have a bit of a thought on this and, hope it is not too far off. First let me preface this by saying that my first position upon graduating collage required me to travel about 300 days a year outside of the US. I did this for almost four and a half years. I have spent considerable time in the South Pacific, Western Europe, Israel, and SE Asia. And believe me, I loved it. To me, the possible root of the problems is that many of us here in the US don't see ourselves as a part of the world community. And, I believe that this may stem from the fact that many of us don't travel much outside the states. I know that many young military people are required to travel. But, these guys aren't often the best ambassadors of our country. Having seen many of these boys in action in South Korea and Japan I am reminded of the phrase "Young dumb and full of cum." And sure, many young, well to do collage kids "backpack" through Europe, but somehow I don't think living la'bohem for 3 months really does enough to gain a sense of community. And of course, we can't forget the occasional tourist. While not a bad thing, many of the folks do nothing to research local customs and lifestyles. And, are often guilty of eating at the god forsaken Hard Rock Café. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to offer. :( But, somehow Americans need to get out and interact with the rest of the world. Not as customers/consumers but as someone who just wants to enjoy what the rest of the world has to offer. To me, this seems like the real long term solution. Personally, my family continues to vacation outside the US(just got back from Peru :)). Just my opinion Chris Austin
I'm sure I read somewhere that less than 10% of Americans actually have a passport! Certainly in my travels in the US I have got the impression that it is quite an insular country. Mind you, it is also a vast country of ~300 million people, so that's hardly surprising!
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
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Brian, When you find some issue make every effort to respond politely and leave room for an honest friendly answer. There are several members who will give you an honest and usually friendly response to what you are saying. Do not take offence (at least most of the time) to others miss reading your sentences. Those in the US do use a lot of slang that is read differently by others. Just my 2 cents for part one. I have had the fortune to have several others on this list spend the time to educate me on how they look at issues. Often taking 4 or 5 round trips before we agree on what we are saying. To all of them a BIG thank you from me. For recent events, the biggest issue that I find is the feeling that the US is not accountable to anyone but the US. Now even though I do not feel this way it is enough of a common feeling that I think the US should do more to address this. I have begun a letter to my leadership to point this out. If nothing else we can show that we do hold our country accountable.
the biggest issue that I find is the feeling that the US is not accountable to anyone but the US I think that's what bothers me most. It's as if your local police force was given free reign to do what they like without due process or obtaining warrents. While it might clean up some crime, it's going to get out of hand without the proper checks and balances. (ie: vigilates)
Know Jesus, no peace. No Jesus, know peace.
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I'm sure I read somewhere that less than 10% of Americans actually have a passport! Certainly in my travels in the US I have got the impression that it is quite an insular country. Mind you, it is also a vast country of ~300 million people, so that's hardly surprising!
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: I'm sure I read somewhere that less than 10% of Americans actually have a passport! I don't know about this number but, I wouldn't be suprised. Robert Edward Caldecott wrote: Certainly in my travels in the US I have got the impression that it is quite an insular country. Mind you, it is also a vast country of ~300 million people, so that's hardly surprising! On thing I find interesting about this is that many Americans rarely see it all. Often people find a favorite spot and spend *every* vacation there. Personaly, I'd like to visit as much of the US as I can but, I am saving that untill my wife and I have small children. Until then, we plan to travel abroad. A possible reason for lack of Americans abroad may "simply" be the labor laws in the US. It is often the case where professionals are "discouraged" from taking long vacations. And, the local & federal goverments will noting to discourage this abuse. I have experianced this first hand, where I had to quit a very good paying job because they refused to aprove 3 weeks off for my wedding and honeymoon. Damn!!!...
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LA riots: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22LA+riots%22
Know Jesus, no peace. No Jesus, know peace.
Thats them :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Hey Folks, I have a bit of a thought on this and, hope it is not too far off. First let me preface this by saying that my first position upon graduating collage required me to travel about 300 days a year outside of the US. I did this for almost four and a half years. I have spent considerable time in the South Pacific, Western Europe, Israel, and SE Asia. And believe me, I loved it. To me, the possible root of the problems is that many of us here in the US don't see ourselves as a part of the world community. And, I believe that this may stem from the fact that many of us don't travel much outside the states. I know that many young military people are required to travel. But, these guys aren't often the best ambassadors of our country. Having seen many of these boys in action in South Korea and Japan I am reminded of the phrase "Young dumb and full of cum." And sure, many young, well to do collage kids "backpack" through Europe, but somehow I don't think living la'bohem for 3 months really does enough to gain a sense of community. And of course, we can't forget the occasional tourist. While not a bad thing, many of the folks do nothing to research local customs and lifestyles. And, are often guilty of eating at the god forsaken Hard Rock Café. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to offer. :( But, somehow Americans need to get out and interact with the rest of the world. Not as customers/consumers but as someone who just wants to enjoy what the rest of the world has to offer. To me, this seems like the real long term solution. Personally, my family continues to vacation outside the US(just got back from Peru :)). Just my opinion Chris Austin
I Like your Post, and agree with your observations. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Paul Watson wrote: There is a need to police though, but that must come from some global organisation, with more than just one country being represented. Paul Watson wrote: Or rather if the 7 habits idea was to be used, then the concepts of nations would have to change and become less rigid. This is really more what I was thinking. Hopefully, down the road, we can realistically begin talking about a world government. Imagine if all the production world-wide now geared towards military, could to a large part be geared towards useful things. Paul Watson wrote: You get it? Yes. I see a website possiblity here. Global discussions of world issues with links and articles regarding international history and current events. Without more citizens discussing this, not a damn things going to change. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
If you ever start such a website and need more people, you can count me in.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
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If you ever start such a website and need more people, you can count me in.
Regards,Rohit Sinha
Rohit Sinha wrote: you can count me in. :cool: BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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Hey Folks, I have a bit of a thought on this and, hope it is not too far off. First let me preface this by saying that my first position upon graduating collage required me to travel about 300 days a year outside of the US. I did this for almost four and a half years. I have spent considerable time in the South Pacific, Western Europe, Israel, and SE Asia. And believe me, I loved it. To me, the possible root of the problems is that many of us here in the US don't see ourselves as a part of the world community. And, I believe that this may stem from the fact that many of us don't travel much outside the states. I know that many young military people are required to travel. But, these guys aren't often the best ambassadors of our country. Having seen many of these boys in action in South Korea and Japan I am reminded of the phrase "Young dumb and full of cum." And sure, many young, well to do collage kids "backpack" through Europe, but somehow I don't think living la'bohem for 3 months really does enough to gain a sense of community. And of course, we can't forget the occasional tourist. While not a bad thing, many of the folks do nothing to research local customs and lifestyles. And, are often guilty of eating at the god forsaken Hard Rock Café. Unfortunately, I don't have a solution to offer. :( But, somehow Americans need to get out and interact with the rest of the world. Not as customers/consumers but as someone who just wants to enjoy what the rest of the world has to offer. To me, this seems like the real long term solution. Personally, my family continues to vacation outside the US(just got back from Peru :)). Just my opinion Chris Austin
Unfortunately, international travel by its very nature favors those who have too much money and too much time, thus exposing to others a poor sampling of the place they are from. And this works both ways - i certainly had a much lower opinion of several European countries prior to running into slightly more representative citizens here on CP... Shog9 ------
Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though. - Paul Watson, My Ignorance
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Unfortunately, international travel by its very nature favors those who have too much money and too much time, thus exposing to others a poor sampling of the place they are from. And this works both ways - i certainly had a much lower opinion of several European countries prior to running into slightly more representative citizens here on CP... Shog9 ------
Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though. - Paul Watson, My Ignorance
Shog9 wrote: Unfortunately, international travel by its very nature favors those who have too much money and too much time, thus exposing to others a poor sampling of the place they are from. True Enough.... But I must say that my wife and I actualy save year round for our trips...it is amazing how much money you can save if you have a wife like mine who counts every penny I spend:) As for time, we tend to save our vacation time as well. And nothing pisses me off more than a boss saying no after giving them 3+ months notice. Chris Austin Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffe.
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Unfortunately, international travel by its very nature favors those who have too much money and too much time, thus exposing to others a poor sampling of the place they are from. And this works both ways - i certainly had a much lower opinion of several European countries prior to running into slightly more representative citizens here on CP... Shog9 ------
Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though. - Paul Watson, My Ignorance
Shog9 wrote: Unfortunately, international travel by its very nature favors those who have too much money and too much time, A small disagreement. For example if an America flies to notheren and Western Europe, it's likely to cost more. But if he/she goes to most of Latin America / Asia / Africa it could be less inexpensive. Getting to the destinations might be expensive but when you are their it can be very inexpensive. Also the common US 2 week Holiday isn't conductive to decent International excursions I guess. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Brian, Nice thread, I wish you luck and I caution you as well. I agree that the US press is slanted. They really know how to push our buttons and ignore big issues in other countries. I doubt anybody will deny that. The thing you need to remember is that the non-US press is equally slanted. There are as many different angles as there are news sources. The SA press is skewed to SA interests, the Australian press is skewed to Australian interests, the French press... ad infinitum. IMO your best bet is to read as much of it as possible, consider the sources and assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. Another thing to remember is that many of the "voices" here on CP are equally slanted. There have been many "ignorant American" voices making ludicrous comments about the world outside of the US. They become the poster children for the worst stereo-types. Likewise, there have been an equal number of non-American voices who make ignorant comments about US culture based entirely on Hollywood movies and television. Many of these folks have never been here, but act like they know us intimately. I've been accused (several times) here at CP of being the "Ugly American". Of scanning the forums for any anti-American comments and jumping into the fray. Although this is not true, I can understand why it might appear so. On serious topics, I try to comment only on those issues where I have direct knowledge or real experience. You'll find some CPians that feel like they are experts on everything based on nothing. They read one article from one source and feel like they know "the truth" and need to spout off about it. In most cases other perspectives or "alternate truths" are exposed. All in all, the CP "Lounge" and "Soapbox" forums are an excellent source for getting a very diverse group of intelligent perspectives about world issues.
Mike Mullikin :beer: Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. David St. Hubbins - Spinal Tap
Mike Mullikin wrote: ...the Australian press is skewed to Australian interests... Interests? I thought we sold them all to the US. :) Mike Mullikin wrote: Likewise, there have been an equal number of non-American voices who make ignorant comments about US culture based entirely on Hollywood movies and television. What? You mean Rambo and Friends aren't documenteries. ;) Mike Mullikin wrote: You'll find some CPians that feel like they are experts on everything based on nothing. They read one article from one source and feel like they know "the truth" and need to spout off about it. You give me too much credit, I don't even read the first article I just make it up as I go along. ;P Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Shog9 wrote: Unfortunately, international travel by its very nature favors those who have too much money and too much time, A small disagreement. For example if an America flies to notheren and Western Europe, it's likely to cost more. But if he/she goes to most of Latin America / Asia / Africa it could be less inexpensive. Getting to the destinations might be expensive but when you are their it can be very inexpensive. Also the common US 2 week Holiday isn't conductive to decent International excursions I guess. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: But if he/she goes to most of Latin America / Asia / Africa it could be less inexpensive. Getting to the destinations might be expensive but when you are their it can be very inexpensive. I defer to the voice of experience. :) Colin Davies wrote: Also the common US 2 week Holiday isn't conductive to decent International excursions I guess. True, that. Heh, it caused quite a stir here a bit ago, when we learned that one of our collegues in France was to be gone for most of the summer. Even with an understanding manager, you still need a pretty good excuse for taking more than a few weeks here... Shog9 ------
Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though. - Paul Watson, My Ignorance
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Colin Davies wrote: But if he/she goes to most of Latin America / Asia / Africa it could be less inexpensive. Getting to the destinations might be expensive but when you are their it can be very inexpensive. I defer to the voice of experience. :) Colin Davies wrote: Also the common US 2 week Holiday isn't conductive to decent International excursions I guess. True, that. Heh, it caused quite a stir here a bit ago, when we learned that one of our collegues in France was to be gone for most of the summer. Even with an understanding manager, you still need a pretty good excuse for taking more than a few weeks here... Shog9 ------
Rather hammer futiley at the locked door than just sit and ignore it. Obviously finding a way to get through the locked door would be even better though. - Paul Watson, My Ignorance
Shog9 wrote: Even with an understanding manager, you still need a pretty good excuse for taking more than a few weeks here... Here in France we have legally 5 weeks of vacation per year. :) Nice to travel :cool:
Who gives a f*ck If my life sucks ? I just know one day I won't give up Beg For Me/KoЯn
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Shog9 wrote: Even with an understanding manager, you still need a pretty good excuse for taking more than a few weeks here... Here in France we have legally 5 weeks of vacation per year. :) Nice to travel :cool:
Who gives a f*ck If my life sucks ? I just know one day I won't give up Beg For Me/KoЯn
Kaßl wrote: 5 weeks of vacation per year. Man, that would just rock!!:cool: My uncle from Germany, once compared European to Americans this way. Europeans work-to-live, Americans live-to-work pros/cons to both of course, both man 5 weeks would be sweet. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
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I must admit to my general ignorance in US foreign policy. Visiting CP over the past few months has indeed opened my eyes to many things which I'm desperately trying to learn about and digest. It has become very apparent that nearly everyone has an opinion of the US, and watches our moves with a suspicious eye. In trying to understand this situation better, and develop my own more educated views, I'd like to ask some help. Not only would it take forever for me to Google about looking for tidbits, but I'd like some real feedback from people. So I would be extremely grateful if CPians could relate information to me regarding US policy in their own country. Anything is fair game, good or bad. Replying here is fine, or you can send it personally to brian.welsch@greenvillearea.net[^] Thanks for your help. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson
Its not so much the SS, as any power that has been dominant for a long time (like the British were). The old saying "Power breeds corruption" - maybe not so much corrcuption as complacency and, I'm sorry to say, arrogance. This isn't putting the US down and saying 'Well of course the British are better', just we wnt through that period of our history a while back. Examples ? The British in India with taxes designed to prevent a middle class rising. The US putting massive duties on goods which compete too much with domestic goods (Canadian timber is a current example). As the EU and Chinese blocks continue to grow things will hopefully level out which I hope will benefit everyone by providing a more distributed balance of power. And finally, what about your impression of other countries/blocks policies toward the US ? Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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Its not so much the SS, as any power that has been dominant for a long time (like the British were). The old saying "Power breeds corruption" - maybe not so much corrcuption as complacency and, I'm sorry to say, arrogance. This isn't putting the US down and saying 'Well of course the British are better', just we wnt through that period of our history a while back. Examples ? The British in India with taxes designed to prevent a middle class rising. The US putting massive duties on goods which compete too much with domestic goods (Canadian timber is a current example). As the EU and Chinese blocks continue to grow things will hopefully level out which I hope will benefit everyone by providing a more distributed balance of power. And finally, what about your impression of other countries/blocks policies toward the US ? Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
Trollslayer wrote: As the EU and Chinese blocks continue to grow things will hopefully level out which I hope will benefit everyone by providing a more distributed balance of power. It will take a bit of time, but I think this will happen. I'd also like to see a strong African contingent. Perhaps when there is more variety in who holds power we can work on a more realistic global society. Trollslayer wrote: And finally, what about your impression of other countries/blocks policies toward the US ? I'm still making these decisions. I know of very little in this regard that has a great effect on me personally. My guess is that policies are generally favorable towards the US, because there is a feeling that countries need to "keep in our favor". Can I defer a real answer for a later date?:-D BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson