Walk a Mile in my Shoes
-
You're right. Elaine is really a MMA trucker called Harold. The good Anna Jayne is actually Englebert Humperdink, and Chris' disproportionate number of lady team members are all Transformers. Let's not forget Ali P - she's really Dalek Dave. On the other side, JSOP is really Cindy Crawford.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
You forgot the lovely Corinna.
Cheers, विक्रम (Got my troika of CCCs!) Need sig - urgentz!!!
-
You forgot the lovely Corinna.
Cheers, विक्रम (Got my troika of CCCs!) Need sig - urgentz!!!
Damn. :doh:
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
-
Get back to your Vegas sandbox Engelbert. ;P
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P ;P
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"
-
I am a big fan of more women in software development but there has to be more to the lack of women than subtle discrimination. The handful of women I have met that consider themselves programmers were not overly competent by any measure and all but one bore a chip on her shoulder that suggested, "No man will help me". All in all software development is taught via mentorship and camaraderie. If you want more good female developers then more women will have to be open to the concept that receiving help from a developer who just so happens to be a man is not discrimination or gender bias but the way that every man learned how to master the craft.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
-
I've said this before - my wife used to be a developer. She went to a company where she was treated like shit by some dipshit bumcuddler who was less qualified and less experienced than she was, yet he considered that suitable work for her was typing up letters. He and I, how shall I put it, had a full and frank exchange on a night out one night where he discovered that it's not wise to get the back up of the husband, especially when he used to do Muay Thai.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
Respectfully, one experience does not quantify a rational conclusion.
-
-
This was in the CP Newsletter today so most of you will have seen it. Women in Technology[^]
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
It's my belief that it all boils down to genetics, as it accurately does for females in sports. While there are exceptions for every rule, the stereotypical nature of men and women are not without merit, and with a good result. Typically men are not good at many things that, generally, women are. That said, riding the discrimination bandwagon is just as ignorant as are the remaining minority of folks who contrbute to it. There's my two cents, and all IMHO. Let me stress "opinion". :-D
-
You're right. Elaine is really a MMA trucker called Harold. The good Anna Jayne is actually Englebert Humperdink, and Chris' disproportionate number of lady team members are all Transformers. Let's not forget Ali P - she's really Dalek Dave. On the other side, JSOP is really Cindy Crawford.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
On the other side, JSOP is really Cindy Crawford.
If only I'd got someone to take a photo when we had dinner a couple of months ago... (Me & JSOP, not Me & Cindy!) Iain.
I am one of "those foreigners coming over here and stealing our jobs". Yay me!
-
I've worked with several women developers. One thing I've observed is that the group is small enough that when you have the inevitable loser, she can't get lost in the crowd like the loser male programmers often can. Another observation is that most good computer programmers I know already had a deep interest in computers and/or electronics in high school. I don't know if women are interested at the same rate, but the ones that are get a lot of peer pressure from other girls (and some guys, but mostly girls) to be interested in something else. My daughter, now 22, noticed this when she took several auto mechanics classes in high school. Besides learning that she could get the guys to do anything for her (something she's been gifted at since she was an hour old), she found that while guys in general would be surprised that she knew more about cars than them, they'd soon accept it, but most the girls she knew or met wouldn't. It was never clear why not, but they just didn't. Computers aren't much different. (Why aren't there more women in auto sports? Because there aren't many twelve year old girls doing Karting and rebuilding engines. Unfortunately, there is a lot of discrimination at that age, though mostly from mothers [most the dads I know love when their girls to do car things with them], but it's also because twelve year old girls in general just aren't that interested in cars.)
VERY GOOD POINT!!! Funny how women who gripe about discrimination never mention discrimination from other women. They just assume that those women have been beaten down by the male discrimination machine. Nearly ten years ago I saw a survey where men and women were given a list of jobs and asked what they would expect to earn in those jobs. Women had lower expectations across the board.
-
Respectfully, one experience does not quantify a rational conclusion.
Did I say there was any conclusion in there? I just retold personal experience.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
-
The inertia of the male "geek-dom" (nerd, computer sciences, engineering, ...) makes it hard for women to get on board.
Watched code never compiles.
Maximilien wrote:
The inertia of the male "geek-dom" (nerd, computer sciences, engineering, ...) makes it hard for women to get on board.
Well said. When I walk around the labs of the computing building in my uni, the male competitive geekery theme is quite aggressive (think of a room with 20 or 30 Comic Book Shop Guys all trying to outshout each other) and perhaps a factor that drives away women to some degree. In my compsci undergrad, there were about 100 students in second year, four of which were female - I was very disturbed by that extremely low number.
-
This was in the CP Newsletter today so most of you will have seen it. Women in Technology[^]
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
I sent the article to my daughter - she found it rather insightful. She is in her 3rd year in University studying Physics & Mathematics and had experienced some of the same comments and insinuations that the article's author mentioned. "You're only in the program because you're a girl"... she's on a full-ride merit-based scholarship. The push by the university to get women in the techie degrees is independent of her scholarship process. My daughter received several science and math awards in high school - some at the local level, one at the state level, and is now a paid tutor for 2nd year mathematics students at the university. She's good at math, likes to solve problems, good at working in groups, and a natural leader. Her professors and employers realize her potential - her fellow students [the males] can often be twits. Encouraging "those who can" "to do" is important for any profession... I don't want my doctor, auto mechanic, or roofer to be some affirmatively-promoted marginal student. Changing any [insert-non-merit-based-group-identifier-here]-dominated profession or group to accept the best-qualified candidates (skills, skills, skills), as stated in the article, seems to be the hightest hurdle. And, Great Article, thanks for posting! :-D
-Bob
-
This was in the CP Newsletter today so most of you will have seen it. Women in Technology[^]
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
In the blog (via the link), there is a side-bar quote "People mistakenly assume that affirmative action is about granting minorities undeserved privileges. In it’s purist form, affirmative action is about allowing minorities natural talents to flourish by removing artificial, unfair barriers and decoupling the true skills required to succeed in a profession from the cultural baggage that builds naturally within an insular community." This may be the intent and it may be your belief and that of the blogger; however, it frequently not the manner in which Affirmative Action is implemented. All too often, Affirmative Action is implemented by either actually or figuratively adding "points" to the actual score earned by someone simply because they are a "minority" and, therefore, assumed to have been previously oppressed with the result that they would have scored better if they hadn't been oppressed. I am a male IT professional and I can tell you that I have experienced reverse discrimination in the name of Affirmative Action. I have been told that the reason I wasn't hired was that the company needed to achieve a certain "Affirmative Action Score" (apparently, there is a point system for rating the minority vs non-minority employees). I have also been called a Male Chauvenist Pig both for holding a door for and not holding a door for the same female programmer. I have been accused of discriminating against a female programmer because I found and corrected flaws in the logic and implementation of her code. Affirmative Action is a form of discriminating in favor of someone because a real or perceived limitation of opportunity, prior oppression, or previous discrimination against that person. Unfortunately, discrimination for one person, by definition, means discrimination against another. To argue otherwise opens the door to the claim that discrimination against blacks in the last century was actually not discrimination against the blacks but discrimination for the whites. I have always assumed that there is no reason to expect that anyone can't be an excellent IT professional simply because of their race, color, creed, sex, etc.; I have also assumed that there is no reason to expect that anyone can be an excellent IT professional simply because of their race, color, creed, sex, etc. Perhaps, if there are fewer women entering the ranks of the IT professionals, the fault doesn't lay at
-
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
All in all software development is taught via mentorship and camaraderie.
Well, that's an interesting take on it. I did have an amazing mentor (male) when I was 21 and fresh out of college and I soaked up all he had to teach me - he was close to retiring. But I think that I mostly learned by all the usual ways: experience, making mistakes, reading, trying things out and hard work. Also I love what I do and have a passion for it.
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
Part of mentorship is giving you tasks to help you gain experience, allowing you to make mistakes, giving you room to try things and work hard. Without a co-worker to vouch for you and giving you that leeway, you would have been fired the first week. Over the last year I have been a mentor to a male fresh college grad and female with 4 years experience. So far the male has outperformed the female. Over the past 20+ years I have worked with a number of females, some have done an excellent job and some haven't. If anything I have encouraged the females more because I recognize they are under-represented. Anyway, the ones that had the skills, the interest and the determination succeeded whether male or female.
SS => Qualified in Submarines "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". Winston Churchill "Real programmers can write FORTRAN in any language". Unknown
-
This was in the CP Newsletter today so most of you will have seen it. Women in Technology[^]
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
Interesting article. The comparison between "code cowboys" and "good developers" caught the most of my attention. I found it mostly accurate, but I disagreed with two points: First, it isn't true that good developers necessarily have a life outside their jobs. It is as senseless as claiming all good lawyers can and do play golf in their weekends because otherwise they haven't achieved self-actualization. I know a couple of guys who are awesome developers (yes, they even get the "I am just a part of the team" and "I appreciate your efforts despite the fact you can't think in a structured way" stuff), yet don't have anything to do in their free time besides trolling the internets. And if you call that a life, well... Second, amazing capacity for abstraction and creative thinking don't separate "code cowboys" from "good developers." The difference is actually knowing what you should use those abilities for. "Code cowboys" use their capacity for abstraction and creative thinking to do things nobody finds useful, like optimizing two picoseconds per loop iteration using code ten times as complicated, without even documenting, because it should be obvious to anybody who knows their math; filling the user interface with two times as many controls, just to give users the opportunity to control parameters whose existence they didn't even know in first place; and, in general, as the article says, finding complex solution to problems, thus proving their brilliance. I would like to add a point that wasn't included in the comparison: "Good developers" can estimate accurately (well, more or less accurately, according to their experience) how much effort will take them to do a particular task. "Code cowboys" overestimate their own ability to do work, because they think of the algorithmic issues first, so real-life issues that are beyond the differences between linked lists and arrays tend to catch them by surprise. Thus, they are always rushing to meet the deadline.
If you can play The Dance of Eternity (Dream Theater), then we shall make a band.
-
I don't really have a point on my own account as I can't say that I have experienced much discrimination myself and I've worked in many different countries (including Holland) as a software professional. What I do notice is that so few women appear to be here on CP. In the industry in general the proportion is supposedly 10% but I can't see many women here. :((
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
There will always be women. :cool: When I was a kid I wanted to be a writer. It was fascinating to me how imagination can take you to places that nobody has been before. However, my marks seemed to indicate that I am better at math. Mathematics is an ugly duckling. It hides more power than most languages. But it requires patience and no greed. Thus, I became a programmer. It is practical. And I discovered that even though I may not be creative enough for the artistic world, I am resourceful enough for the world of 'men'. ;) I like working with men. They know what they want most of the time and they are much more predictable than women are. I haven't had trouble with discrimination. If anything it amuses me or flatters me. For example, I got this comment from PIEBALDconsult: "Thank you, kind sir"[^] (Thank you, PIEBALDconsult). It has been said that 'Genuis is 1% talent and 99% hard work'... I'd like to think that women soften the landscape a bit sometimes.
I would imagine if you could understand Morse Code, a tap dancer would drive you crazy. -- Mitch Hedberg (American Comedian, 1968-2005)
-
You forgot the lovely Corinna.
Cheers, विक्रम (Got my troika of CCCs!) Need sig - urgentz!!!
Yeah, Corinna's awesome.
Daniel Vaughan Twitter | Blog | Microsoft MVP | Projects: Calcium SDK, Clog | LinkedIn
-
The inertia of the male "geek-dom" (nerd, computer sciences, engineering, ...) makes it hard for women to get on board.
Watched code never compiles.
I have to agree. I believe that the discrepancy in the number women developers is clear evidence that there is a problem in the industry. It's not a level playing field, and arguments that suggest that women should be treated equally is part of the reason why it has proven hard for women to find a foot hold. I'm all for affirmative action actually. Cheers, Daniel
Daniel Vaughan Twitter | Blog | Microsoft MVP | Projects: Calcium SDK, Clog | LinkedIn
-
Here's one I know. ;)
Daniel Vaughan Twitter | Blog | Microsoft MVP | Projects: Calcium SDK, Clog | LinkedIn