What do people think of the death penalty for Aimal Kasi?

Jorgen Sigvardsson

I could have sworn the subject was just "What do people think of the death penalty" when I wrote my post. I didn't have time to read the actual article when I saw it, so my comment may have been a little off base. :-O I believe that death penalty in general is a bad idea. When I was younger I didn't see any problem in killing anyone. But I've come to believe that it isn't ok to take another mans life, no matter what. When I think about killing another human being, it gives me creepy feelings. I just feel that it's wrong. Logic would dictate that a murderer should receive what he/she deserves. But I just can't make that conclusion. I try to live my life by reasoning, but this subject is one thing I just cannot reason about, I'll have to go with my gut feeling on this one. -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer

Lost User

Usually the objection against death penalty is that it cannot be reversed; if it was later found that the accused is indeed innocent. Most of the objection is because many possible death penalty cases had the accused acquitted later on - in some cases, years later. I do not have any references for these claims right now; but that is what I remember vaguely. My article on a reference-counted smart pointer that supports polymorphic objects and raw pointers

Jorgen Sigvardsson

http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=334425#xx334425xx[^] :) -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer

Black Cat

Mike Mullikin wrote: Out of curiousity, if someone came to Tasmania and killed two people simply because they were Tasmanian, what kind of penalty could he expect? Dress him up as Tasmanians and tie him to a post so that the next group of Tasminian haters can see clearly? ;P ;P

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Jason Henderson wrote: You Europeans are soooo enlightened... Yup. The age of enlightenment started in europe ;) Anyway, I explain my post here: http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=334425#xx334425xx[^] -- standing so tall, the ground behind no trespassers, on every floor a garden swing, and another door she makes it clear, that everything is hers A place of abode, not far from here, Ms. Van de Veer

Christian Graus

I'm sorry, are you saying the US doesn't have the right to impose it's will on the world, or that the US does not have the death penalty ? Sorry, forgot to answer the question. IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light, not to mention the idea of my not being dragged down to the level of a killer by the society I live in. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002

Stefan Pedersen

That is a very simple question. Ofcourse I would be raging mad, wanting to kill the person with my bare hands. But that wouldn't bring anyone back to life and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ease my suffering (except maybe for the short moment the perpetrator perishes before my eyes). The question isn't really about what I would do... It's about what a goverment allows itself to do to the citizens. As I said, two wrongs doesn't make a right. So what do I think the goverment should do? Lock em up for life or treat criminality as a desease and try to cure it? Sweden has gone for the second option and I can't say it's working out great and I don't like the first option either. The only thing that I'm sure of is that the deathpenalty belongs in the middle ages...

Stefan Pedersen

Read your own reply once more. I hope you regret writing that...

David Wulff

He should not be killed, no-one should be. Incarcerate him for life in a small cage with only basic amenities. American, Muslim, Brit... it makes no difference either.

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

Rememberance knows no boundaries. Wear a poppy and uphold the silence: 10/11-Nov-2002

Stefan Pedersen

Damn, this thread will keep me upp all night... Nope, no deathpenalty in Sweden. The swedish goverment has choosen a very lenient path when dealing with crimes. It's not working out that great (IMHO) but on the other hand, we don't have much violent crime compared to for example the US. (Maybe due to restrictive regulations in other areas, such as gunlaws). Regarding your "real" question, I think you have a very interesting point there. I would argue that there can be no justice if things like how the judgement will be received by others are concidered (dp or no dp). Apart from that, the US vs Middle East is such a delicate matter right now that I think everybody needs to think atleast twice before jumping the gun... Thank god I'm only writing software for a living.

David Wulff

Chris Hansson wrote: Remember that as a muslim... That has nothing to do with Islam; don't draw sterotypes of the world's largest religion from a few fanatics. Chris Hansson wrote: oh and feed him nothing but pork I should seriously hope that would violate whichever basic human rights your constitution grants you, and if not it damned well should. :|

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

Rememberance knows no boundaries. Wear a poppy and uphold the silence: 10/11-Nov-2002

Lost User

Christian Graus wrote: I'm sorry, are you saying the US doesn't have the right to impose it's will on the world, or that the US does not have the death penalty ? Ummmm... :confused: If you are refering to my comment about you listening to our press and politicians it was a direct response to your comment about "the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world". I personally don't think the US society is the most advanced, nor do I remember many (if any) Americans on CP claiming such. However, if one listens to the US press or US politicians, they obviously think so. They are a smug bunch and should never be taken seriously. Christian Graus wrote: Sorry, forgot to answer the question. IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light, not to mention the idea of my not being dragged down to the level of a killer by the society I live in Fair enough, but my real question was what kind of sentence could a double homocide killer expect in Tasmania? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Life in prison? Parole? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just curious what Tasmanian society deems justice/punishment for taking two lives. Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Tester

Matt Philmon wrote: You name the CIA as if it's a living, breathing, thing. Every individual in the CIA is just that, an individual. 2 murders are 2 murders, regardless of nationality OR what company they work for. Yes, I know what CIA is, and I think it is not much better than Al Quaeda. Can you say that "Every individual in the Al Quaeda is just that, an individual"?

brianwelsch

Stefan Pedersen wrote: But that wouldn't bring anyone back to life and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ease my suffering Stefan Pedersen wrote: two wrongs doesn't make a right You are right. It's a situation that has no cure from the stand point of resurrecting the dead, nor is there a way to ease the pain of grief outside of time. I used to think that we don't have the right to kill someone regardless, or that we are simply bringing ourselves down the killers level, or other similar arguments. I don't see it that way anymore. The problem becomes, how do we get people from killing in the first place. I think we can agree that the threat of sitting in jail, is hardly a deterrant, especially given that prisons are more and more becoming humane communes for the criminally minded. So, then our option of rehabilitating criminals comes up, which you have said yourself isn't working very well. I'd also take a look at "A Clockwork Orange" for an extreme take on this. So we're left with Capital Punishment which I feel has the best hope for success. We are still barbaric animals. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

brianwelsch

I think you are referring to this line: Maybe if I kill someone in your family, you'll be as kind as to put me out of my misery, so I won't have to dwell on the fact that I was such heartless callous bastard. I regret it if you think I meant to or would ever wish anyone attack you or your family. I merely stated it this way bring the issue more personal. My thought here was that perhaps its merciful to kill the murderer. Did I miss something else? BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

Christian Graus

Mike Mullikin wrote: I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just curious what Tasmanian society deems justice/punishment for taking two lives. In theory one would hope they got life, in practice they probably get less than I would like, taking into account parole and so on. Our system is not perfect, and it's far too bleeding heart for my liking. I guess the idea is that justice means rehabilitation, not retribution, but in my opinion we go too far in that direction and I don't believe that prison has any reforming qualities in any case. Martin Bryant is clearly never coming out of jail, but I know it regularly makes the news that serial rapists or murders get out in under 20 years. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002

brianwelsch

David Wulff wrote: Incarcerate him for life in a small cage with only basic amenities I don't know about elsewhere, but that's part of the problem here in the states. Our prisons have become quite plush. I think perhaps if our prison system would become less humane, I would lean more towards incarceration than death penalty. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

Lost User

Stefan Pedersen wrote: So what do I think the goverment should do? Lock em up for life or treat criminality as a desease and try to cure it? Sweden has gone for the second option and I can't say it's working out great and I don't like the first option either. The only thing that I'm sure of is that the deathpenalty belongs in the middle ages... So it's one of those cases where you don't know what to do, but you do know what NOT to do. Fair enough. One thing you need to understand about the US is (for the most part) we believe that people reap what they sew. In other words, if someone is lazy then they can't complain about being poor, if they do not educate themselves when they have the opportunity they cannot complain about not having a good job. We are very charitable to people when disaster strikes (earthquake, famine, disease, etc...) but have very little pity when they commit a crime. The issue of the death penalty is contentious here as well, many states do not have the death penalty, and many that do - use it quite sparingly. I live in Illinois, where a full 50% of the people on our death row were recently proved innocent by DNA testing so I'm not a big fan of the death penalty myself. However, I'm even less a fan of subjugating a state's law (or federal law) for political reasons. Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Chris Austin

damn it! :) I do regret the missing "e" in my sig. Otherwise, I remain unsympathetic for this man. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.

Chris Hansson

David Wulff wrote: That has nothing to do with Islam; don't draw sterotypes of the world's largest religion from a few fanatics Excuse me? That is an integral part of Islam, that if you die in battle protecting Islam, you go automatically to heaven, and get assigned X number of virgins (I do not remember the exact number, I have to admitt it has been about 12 years since I read the Quoran, and even so it was only a translation as I do not read/speak Arabic). David Wulff wrote: I should seriously hope that would violate whichever basic human rights your constitution grants you, and if not it damned well should. And who protects the human right to LIFE of the two people he killed? (Just curious). /CMH