What do people think of the death penalty for Aimal Kasi?

Stefan Pedersen

Damn, this thread will keep me upp all night... Nope, no deathpenalty in Sweden. The swedish goverment has choosen a very lenient path when dealing with crimes. It's not working out that great (IMHO) but on the other hand, we don't have much violent crime compared to for example the US. (Maybe due to restrictive regulations in other areas, such as gunlaws). Regarding your "real" question, I think you have a very interesting point there. I would argue that there can be no justice if things like how the judgement will be received by others are concidered (dp or no dp). Apart from that, the US vs Middle East is such a delicate matter right now that I think everybody needs to think atleast twice before jumping the gun... Thank god I'm only writing software for a living.

David Wulff

Chris Hansson wrote: Remember that as a muslim... That has nothing to do with Islam; don't draw sterotypes of the world's largest religion from a few fanatics. Chris Hansson wrote: oh and feed him nothing but pork I should seriously hope that would violate whichever basic human rights your constitution grants you, and if not it damned well should. :|

David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk

Rememberance knows no boundaries. Wear a poppy and uphold the silence: 10/11-Nov-2002

Lost User

Christian Graus wrote: I'm sorry, are you saying the US doesn't have the right to impose it's will on the world, or that the US does not have the death penalty ? Ummmm... :confused: If you are refering to my comment about you listening to our press and politicians it was a direct response to your comment about "the society that claims to be the most advanced in the world". I personally don't think the US society is the most advanced, nor do I remember many (if any) Americans on CP claiming such. However, if one listens to the US press or US politicians, they obviously think so. They are a smug bunch and should never be taken seriously. Christian Graus wrote: Sorry, forgot to answer the question. IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light, not to mention the idea of my not being dragged down to the level of a killer by the society I live in Fair enough, but my real question was what kind of sentence could a double homocide killer expect in Tasmania? 10 years? 20 years? 50 years? Life in prison? Parole? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just curious what Tasmanian society deems justice/punishment for taking two lives. Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Tester

Matt Philmon wrote: You name the CIA as if it's a living, breathing, thing. Every individual in the CIA is just that, an individual. 2 murders are 2 murders, regardless of nationality OR what company they work for. Yes, I know what CIA is, and I think it is not much better than Al Quaeda. Can you say that "Every individual in the Al Quaeda is just that, an individual"?

brianwelsch

Stefan Pedersen wrote: But that wouldn't bring anyone back to life and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't ease my suffering Stefan Pedersen wrote: two wrongs doesn't make a right You are right. It's a situation that has no cure from the stand point of resurrecting the dead, nor is there a way to ease the pain of grief outside of time. I used to think that we don't have the right to kill someone regardless, or that we are simply bringing ourselves down the killers level, or other similar arguments. I don't see it that way anymore. The problem becomes, how do we get people from killing in the first place. I think we can agree that the threat of sitting in jail, is hardly a deterrant, especially given that prisons are more and more becoming humane communes for the criminally minded. So, then our option of rehabilitating criminals comes up, which you have said yourself isn't working very well. I'd also take a look at "A Clockwork Orange" for an extreme take on this. So we're left with Capital Punishment which I feel has the best hope for success. We are still barbaric animals. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

brianwelsch

I think you are referring to this line: Maybe if I kill someone in your family, you'll be as kind as to put me out of my misery, so I won't have to dwell on the fact that I was such heartless callous bastard. I regret it if you think I meant to or would ever wish anyone attack you or your family. I merely stated it this way bring the issue more personal. My thought here was that perhaps its merciful to kill the murderer. Did I miss something else? BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

Christian Graus

Mike Mullikin wrote: I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just curious what Tasmanian society deems justice/punishment for taking two lives. In theory one would hope they got life, in practice they probably get less than I would like, taking into account parole and so on. Our system is not perfect, and it's far too bleeding heart for my liking. I guess the idea is that justice means rehabilitation, not retribution, but in my opinion we go too far in that direction and I don't believe that prison has any reforming qualities in any case. Martin Bryant is clearly never coming out of jail, but I know it regularly makes the news that serial rapists or murders get out in under 20 years. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002

brianwelsch

David Wulff wrote: Incarcerate him for life in a small cage with only basic amenities I don't know about elsewhere, but that's part of the problem here in the states. Our prisons have become quite plush. I think perhaps if our prison system would become less humane, I would lean more towards incarceration than death penalty. BW "I'm coming with you! I got you fired, it's the least I can do. Well, the least I could do is absolutely nothing, but I'll go you one better and come along!" - Homer J. Simpson

Lost User

Stefan Pedersen wrote: So what do I think the goverment should do? Lock em up for life or treat criminality as a desease and try to cure it? Sweden has gone for the second option and I can't say it's working out great and I don't like the first option either. The only thing that I'm sure of is that the deathpenalty belongs in the middle ages... So it's one of those cases where you don't know what to do, but you do know what NOT to do. Fair enough. One thing you need to understand about the US is (for the most part) we believe that people reap what they sew. In other words, if someone is lazy then they can't complain about being poor, if they do not educate themselves when they have the opportunity they cannot complain about not having a good job. We are very charitable to people when disaster strikes (earthquake, famine, disease, etc...) but have very little pity when they commit a crime. The issue of the death penalty is contentious here as well, many states do not have the death penalty, and many that do - use it quite sparingly. I live in Illinois, where a full 50% of the people on our death row were recently proved innocent by DNA testing so I'm not a big fan of the death penalty myself. However, I'm even less a fan of subjugating a state's law (or federal law) for political reasons. Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Chris Austin

damn it! :) I do regret the missing "e" in my sig. Otherwise, I remain unsympathetic for this man. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.

Chris Hansson

David Wulff wrote: That has nothing to do with Islam; don't draw sterotypes of the world's largest religion from a few fanatics Excuse me? That is an integral part of Islam, that if you die in battle protecting Islam, you go automatically to heaven, and get assigned X number of virgins (I do not remember the exact number, I have to admitt it has been about 12 years since I read the Quoran, and even so it was only a translation as I do not read/speak Arabic). David Wulff wrote: I should seriously hope that would violate whichever basic human rights your constitution grants you, and if not it damned well should. And who protects the human right to LIFE of the two people he killed? (Just curious). /CMH

Lost User

Somewhat off topic: I was talking to an old highschool classmate recently who claimed 2 other classmates were currently incarcerated after being convicted of murder over the years (I graduated HS in 1981). I went to the Illinois Department of Corrections website and found they have an "Inmate Search". A couple minutes later... I find out it's true! :omg: One is in for 60 years for murder and the other is in for 40 years for one murder and one attempted murder. :wtf: Neither one of these individuals were class bullies or anything. Hell, one of them was very mild mannered as I recall. Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

dorkshoe

Christian Graus wrote: IMO a civilised society sends such people to jail, where it's possible to reverse the decision if new evidence comes to light The average time a US death row prisoner has to spend in jail until the death sentence is carried out is about nine and a half years. Thats a lot of time to reverse a decision..and there have been many cases where it has been reversed. Its not like you sentence someone to death and then take them outside and shoot em. The prisoner still has the right to appeals and such.. Also, there are like 15 states that abolished the death penalty and a few others that havent used it...The death penalty is a major issue here. One that gets debated all of the time. Anyway! -dork

Christian Graus

Mike Mullikin wrote: Hell, one of them was very mild mannered as I recall. I guess he finally snapped. I used to love going to meet-an-inmate.com and seeing the personals girls in jail used to put up. Cruel, but funny. Have you seen 'Minority Report' ? Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002

ColinDavies

WOW, that would freak me out as well. two from one class seems like a lot, to put it real mildly. Regardz Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.

Christian Graus

dorkshoe wrote: The average time a US death row prisoner has to spend in jail until the death sentence is carried out is about nine and a half years. Which is in itself a cruel and unusual punishment. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002

Mike Gaskey

Personally I believe that some crimes are so terrible that the individual.s or individuals who commit those crimes must be excised from society. With all due respect to the enlightened who have opined regarding the barbarism of the death penalty, I don't see how being provided a life time of room and board is a just punishment for the perpetrators of certain crimes. It is also unfair to the victims of those crimes. In the case that raised the question, my belief is that the USA certainly should not spare this guys life for any political reason. But there is an even worse situation on the horizon. That is the case of the two snipers recently caught here in the USA. Here are two individuals who traveled the country, simply to take lives of innocents. One of these two is purported to be 17 years of age and has admitted, if news leaks are true, to pulling the trigger on several of the murdered innocents. These murders were done either for sport or eventual gain. Should both men, if found guilty, be put to death. Absolutely. The only question is how. Painless injection or ? To call the death penalty barbaric is fine, intellectually, but what is the alternative? Life in prison with no parole? So then family member of the slain contribute the care and feeding of two who took the lives of their family members? One of the victims that comes to mind was the father of six, their only means of support. Now there is a mother without a husband, six children without a father and a family without a provider. There is little question regarding guilt. It is difficult to understand a point of view that would do anything other than deliver and execute a death sentence should they be found guilty at the end of a fair trial. Mike

Lost User

Christian Graus wrote: Have you seen 'Minority Report' ? Not yet, but it's on my list once it's on DVD. Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Lost User

Colin Davies wrote: WOW, that would freak me out as well. two from one class seems like a lot, to put it real mildly. ...and that's only the ones I know about. :~ I'm tempted to sit down with my HS yearbook and start searching for everyone. :suss: Mike Mullikin :beer:

Well, I'm sure I'd feel much worse if I weren't under such heavy sedation. - David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap

Christian Graus

I missed it in the cinema, but I downloaded it. I will certainly be buying it on DVD, it rocks. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002 Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002