Is .Net development really so outre?
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Me happy you get new word things now. grunt. YS
yoni at jefco wrote:
Me happy you get new word things now. grunt.
Grunt back. :-D
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com (recently moved from web-host to wordpress)
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Hi Y'all I have a question; I have been a purely Microsoft platform developer my whole career (14 yrs VB->VB.Net->c#, ASP.net, SQl server). I'm happy with it, and I think I get good work done. From reading the codeproject daily newsletter,though, and especially most of the comments of the articles posted therein, I feel somewhat of a troglodyte. I'm kind of a mushroom- I don't know really know much of what's going on in the bright "real world", so I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS? Cheers, YS
yoni at jefco wrote:
Is MS platform development really on the way out?
No.
yoni at jefco wrote:
What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS?
63.257%
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Hi Y'all I have a question; I have been a purely Microsoft platform developer my whole career (14 yrs VB->VB.Net->c#, ASP.net, SQl server). I'm happy with it, and I think I get good work done. From reading the codeproject daily newsletter,though, and especially most of the comments of the articles posted therein, I feel somewhat of a troglodyte. I'm kind of a mushroom- I don't know really know much of what's going on in the bright "real world", so I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS? Cheers, YS
Hmmmm...they've been saying Java and COBOL are on the out too...There are still Java and COBOL programmers ;P But seriously...it depends where you are and who you are working for. Some still have .NET just as other still have Java. MS products are still used around the world, so it won't go away any time soon. MS comes back every so often with rebranded product or comes out with something slightly new like Azure.. There is a move towards more "Cloud" / "Web" based (HTML5, Flash, Silverlight, JavaFX, etc) so with the Microsoft Azure push your skills won't be a lost cause.
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Hmmmm...they've been saying Java and COBOL are on the out too...There are still Java and COBOL programmers ;P But seriously...it depends where you are and who you are working for. Some still have .NET just as other still have Java. MS products are still used around the world, so it won't go away any time soon. MS comes back every so often with rebranded product or comes out with something slightly new like Azure.. There is a move towards more "Cloud" / "Web" based (HTML5, Flash, Silverlight, JavaFX, etc) so with the Microsoft Azure push your skills won't be a lost cause.
ebresie wrote:
There are still Java and COBOL programmers
I hope a) You would not use that reasoning to advise someone to take up COBOL programming for a living b) If so, that you are not the career counselor at my son's school. I think I can get a job churning my own butter too, if I apply at the correct locations in Amish Country. YS
modified on Monday, September 13, 2010 2:49 PM
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Hi Y'all I have a question; I have been a purely Microsoft platform developer my whole career (14 yrs VB->VB.Net->c#, ASP.net, SQl server). I'm happy with it, and I think I get good work done. From reading the codeproject daily newsletter,though, and especially most of the comments of the articles posted therein, I feel somewhat of a troglodyte. I'm kind of a mushroom- I don't know really know much of what's going on in the bright "real world", so I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS? Cheers, YS
yoni at jefco wrote:
... I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; ...
As the handsome member, I'm happy to offer my opinion.
yoni at jefco wrote:
Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS?
Yeah, everything is on its way out. The question is how fast. As long as there are MS platforms, there will be a need for MS platform developers. As far as other systems, I have no real numbers, but all of my clients want Windows stuff and Linux/Unix isn't in the mix for desktop software. But anyway, if you understand software and programming, moving to a dfferent platform isn't all the hard. The key concepts are about the same, the compilers take care of the low level differences. Mainly the I/O and user interaction details change.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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yoni at jefco wrote:
... I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; ...
As the handsome member, I'm happy to offer my opinion.
yoni at jefco wrote:
Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS?
Yeah, everything is on its way out. The question is how fast. As long as there are MS platforms, there will be a need for MS platform developers. As far as other systems, I have no real numbers, but all of my clients want Windows stuff and Linux/Unix isn't in the mix for desktop software. But anyway, if you understand software and programming, moving to a dfferent platform isn't all the hard. The key concepts are about the same, the compilers take care of the low level differences. Mainly the I/O and user interaction details change.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
As the handsome member, I'm happy to offer my opinion.
Guess why didn't I reply. He said intelligent AND handsome. :laugh:
There are some really weird people on this planet - MIM.
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Hi Y'all I have a question; I have been a purely Microsoft platform developer my whole career (14 yrs VB->VB.Net->c#, ASP.net, SQl server). I'm happy with it, and I think I get good work done. From reading the codeproject daily newsletter,though, and especially most of the comments of the articles posted therein, I feel somewhat of a troglodyte. I'm kind of a mushroom- I don't know really know much of what's going on in the bright "real world", so I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS? Cheers, YS
As far as I understand it things go something like this. Once upon a time back around the dawn of the year two thousand or so people could make vast fortunes by selling you virtual old rope on the internets. Then the big bang happened and people realised that the old rope was only virtual old rope and they'd lost all their money. But the thing was the bigwigs in tech companies thought "There must be a way to make huge amounts of money out of these internet thingies" So they set about selling digital copies of everything from music to toilet roll and thus everyone said the pc was dead. And the bigwigs looked at what they had done and thought it was good. So they said "There must be more ways to make money out these dumb err valued customers maybe we can rent them some virtual old rope or something, instead of selling them it outright." And everyone predicted the pc was dead. At the moment there's more money to be had with internet virtual old rope and I hear virtual snake oils going to be big next year. That and writing toy apps for retarded watches is a good money spinner these days. Though apparently apple's nano can now tell the time too. I suspect there will be steady work for standard pc fare in the future though not much will happen in the way of innovation as all the money is being thrown at the quick buck earners. Not that I personally feel there has been any real innovation in pc development for the last 10-20 years. It's mostly been different ways to write exactly the same thing. Though I should mention that I haven't got round to reading that book I bought about wpf yet and apparently its a dead dog already. Pity it's a Petzold too.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
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Hi Y'all I have a question; I have been a purely Microsoft platform developer my whole career (14 yrs VB->VB.Net->c#, ASP.net, SQl server). I'm happy with it, and I think I get good work done. From reading the codeproject daily newsletter,though, and especially most of the comments of the articles posted therein, I feel somewhat of a troglodyte. I'm kind of a mushroom- I don't know really know much of what's going on in the bright "real world", so I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS? Cheers, YS
Innovation has largely been happening outside of the .NET world so that what gets most of the spotlight. And most of those innovations are not built with .NET tools. The MS platform however still seems to be the goto platform (pun) for business apps. And those change at a rather slow pace so I would imagine the MS platform surviving for a while. Who knows in 10yrs time.
Todd Smith
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As far as I understand it things go something like this. Once upon a time back around the dawn of the year two thousand or so people could make vast fortunes by selling you virtual old rope on the internets. Then the big bang happened and people realised that the old rope was only virtual old rope and they'd lost all their money. But the thing was the bigwigs in tech companies thought "There must be a way to make huge amounts of money out of these internet thingies" So they set about selling digital copies of everything from music to toilet roll and thus everyone said the pc was dead. And the bigwigs looked at what they had done and thought it was good. So they said "There must be more ways to make money out these dumb err valued customers maybe we can rent them some virtual old rope or something, instead of selling them it outright." And everyone predicted the pc was dead. At the moment there's more money to be had with internet virtual old rope and I hear virtual snake oils going to be big next year. That and writing toy apps for retarded watches is a good money spinner these days. Though apparently apple's nano can now tell the time too. I suspect there will be steady work for standard pc fare in the future though not much will happen in the way of innovation as all the money is being thrown at the quick buck earners. Not that I personally feel there has been any real innovation in pc development for the last 10-20 years. It's mostly been different ways to write exactly the same thing. Though I should mention that I haven't got round to reading that book I bought about wpf yet and apparently its a dead dog already. Pity it's a Petzold too.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
In case you haven't already seen it, check out his All-XAML Clock[^].
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
As the handsome member, I'm happy to offer my opinion.
Guess why didn't I reply. He said intelligent AND handsome. :laugh:
There are some really weird people on this planet - MIM.
Well, one person's intersection is another person's union.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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ebresie wrote:
There are still Java and COBOL programmers
I hope a) You would not use that reasoning to advise someone to take up COBOL programming for a living b) If so, that you are not the career counselor at my son's school. I think I can get a job churning my own butter too, if I apply at the correct locations in Amish Country. YS
modified on Monday, September 13, 2010 2:49 PM
yoni at jefco wrote:
"There are still Java and COBOL programmers" I hope a) You would not use that reasoning to advise someone to take up COBOL programming for a living b) If so, that you are not the career counselor at my son's school.
Giant legacy apps never die. With the caveat that you'll be required to work for MegaCorp and deal with the resulting bureaucratic overhead you get high job-security because finding replacements isn't easy and above average pay scales because it's necessary to entice younger devs away from newer shinier tools, or to entice senior devs to continue writing code instead of going into management.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Hi Y'all I have a question; I have been a purely Microsoft platform developer my whole career (14 yrs VB->VB.Net->c#, ASP.net, SQl server). I'm happy with it, and I think I get good work done. From reading the codeproject daily newsletter,though, and especially most of the comments of the articles posted therein, I feel somewhat of a troglodyte. I'm kind of a mushroom- I don't know really know much of what's going on in the bright "real world", so I'm interested in the opinions of the intelligent and handsome members of this lounge; Is MS platform development really on the way out? What pct of real-world (Enterprise, mission critical) systems being developed today do you think are MS vs. Non-MS? Cheers, YS
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As far as I understand it things go something like this. Once upon a time back around the dawn of the year two thousand or so people could make vast fortunes by selling you virtual old rope on the internets. Then the big bang happened and people realised that the old rope was only virtual old rope and they'd lost all their money. But the thing was the bigwigs in tech companies thought "There must be a way to make huge amounts of money out of these internet thingies" So they set about selling digital copies of everything from music to toilet roll and thus everyone said the pc was dead. And the bigwigs looked at what they had done and thought it was good. So they said "There must be more ways to make money out these dumb err valued customers maybe we can rent them some virtual old rope or something, instead of selling them it outright." And everyone predicted the pc was dead. At the moment there's more money to be had with internet virtual old rope and I hear virtual snake oils going to be big next year. That and writing toy apps for retarded watches is a good money spinner these days. Though apparently apple's nano can now tell the time too. I suspect there will be steady work for standard pc fare in the future though not much will happen in the way of innovation as all the money is being thrown at the quick buck earners. Not that I personally feel there has been any real innovation in pc development for the last 10-20 years. It's mostly been different ways to write exactly the same thing. Though I should mention that I haven't got round to reading that book I bought about wpf yet and apparently its a dead dog already. Pity it's a Petzold too.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
Though I should mention that I haven't got round to reading that book I bought about wpf yet and apparently its a dead dog already.
Which is caninus mortis? Your book or the WPF platform? I was under the impression that WPF is the official successor to Windows Forms. Even if I am sticking to the MS platform, I would still think it's best practice to keep abreast of Microsoft's own development tools... Not to mention that I think WPF is sweeet. Routed events, control composition , command routing.... [EDIT] Hmmm I guess I'm more of a mushroom than I realized.. http://www.riagenic.com/archives/363[^] I still like WPF though. YS
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Where did you get this idea? The world is changing. So is Microsoft. Although Microsoft is not in its peak anymore, it will take a long time for it to be out. It may never be out but evolve.
TOMZ_KV
Tomz_KV wrote:
Where did you get this idea?
[Hey, I just noticed that big "Quote Selected Text" button!] Take a sample of any 20 dev related articles from the CodeProject Daily News, and read the comments. That will give you the same idea - the future of development lies not in Redmond. I'm not saying that Microsoft is going away. Just that you can get the feeling that we're second class citizens in the dev world. YS
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As far as I understand it things go something like this. Once upon a time back around the dawn of the year two thousand or so people could make vast fortunes by selling you virtual old rope on the internets. Then the big bang happened and people realised that the old rope was only virtual old rope and they'd lost all their money. But the thing was the bigwigs in tech companies thought "There must be a way to make huge amounts of money out of these internet thingies" So they set about selling digital copies of everything from music to toilet roll and thus everyone said the pc was dead. And the bigwigs looked at what they had done and thought it was good. So they said "There must be more ways to make money out these dumb err valued customers maybe we can rent them some virtual old rope or something, instead of selling them it outright." And everyone predicted the pc was dead. At the moment there's more money to be had with internet virtual old rope and I hear virtual snake oils going to be big next year. That and writing toy apps for retarded watches is a good money spinner these days. Though apparently apple's nano can now tell the time too. I suspect there will be steady work for standard pc fare in the future though not much will happen in the way of innovation as all the money is being thrown at the quick buck earners. Not that I personally feel there has been any real innovation in pc development for the last 10-20 years. It's mostly been different ways to write exactly the same thing. Though I should mention that I haven't got round to reading that book I bought about wpf yet and apparently its a dead dog already. Pity it's a Petzold too.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Personal Music Player[^]
I followed JSOP's posting on the tweets about WPF with some people I know at MS. The take on this from MS is that SL is being pushed harder because it's a user story - in other words, the message is about convincing people to install the SL plugin. WPF is very much alive and kicking - work is already under way on vNext, and there are some great features in there. I wouldn't give up on WPF just yet if I were you. My prediction - we'll see more convergence between WPF and SL over the next couple of years, possibly with WPF being rebranded to SL.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Tomz_KV wrote:
Where did you get this idea?
[Hey, I just noticed that big "Quote Selected Text" button!] Take a sample of any 20 dev related articles from the CodeProject Daily News, and read the comments. That will give you the same idea - the future of development lies not in Redmond. I'm not saying that Microsoft is going away. Just that you can get the feeling that we're second class citizens in the dev world. YS
The bottom line - journalistically, sex sells. Android and iPhone are sexy and available right now (and as close to sex as computing journalists are likely to get), so it's easy to fill articles about them. Primarily this is because there's a market there for the solo developer to make a bit of money, but that doesn't mean that .NET is going anywhere soon or even second class.
yoni at jefco wrote:
That will give you the same idea - the future of development lies not in Redmond.
No, it just tells me that journalists only focus on glossies. Business applications don't really sell stories, and consequently advertising, so these sources will continue to focus on the easy targets.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Woah - had to look up the dictionary twice there! You Afghanis sure speak some weird dialect ;P
Regards, Nish
My technology blog: voidnish.wordpress.com (recently moved from web-host to wordpress)
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
You Afghanis sure speak some weird dialect
I just got that Afghani reference. Apparently my profile had Afghanistan as my location. I have just corrected it to my true location : The small but proud nation of Anonymous Proxy.
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Innovation has largely been happening outside of the .NET world so that what gets most of the spotlight. And most of those innovations are not built with .NET tools. The MS platform however still seems to be the goto platform (pun) for business apps. And those change at a rather slow pace so I would imagine the MS platform surviving for a while. Who knows in 10yrs time.
Todd Smith
Todd Smith wrote:
Innovation has largely been happening outside of the .NET world
That means it's stable, right?
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pseudonym67 wrote:
Though I should mention that I haven't got round to reading that book I bought about wpf yet and apparently its a dead dog already.
Which is caninus mortis? Your book or the WPF platform? I was under the impression that WPF is the official successor to Windows Forms. Even if I am sticking to the MS platform, I would still think it's best practice to keep abreast of Microsoft's own development tools... Not to mention that I think WPF is sweeet. Routed events, control composition , command routing.... [EDIT] Hmmm I guess I'm more of a mushroom than I realized.. http://www.riagenic.com/archives/363[^] I still like WPF though. YS
Indeed, I don't miss windows forms one bit since I moved on to WPF. It's only the strange and buggy designer in VS 2008 that gives me pains.
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
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The bottom line - journalistically, sex sells. Android and iPhone are sexy and available right now (and as close to sex as computing journalists are likely to get), so it's easy to fill articles about them. Primarily this is because there's a market there for the solo developer to make a bit of money, but that doesn't mean that .NET is going anywhere soon or even second class.
yoni at jefco wrote:
That will give you the same idea - the future of development lies not in Redmond.
No, it just tells me that journalists only focus on glossies. Business applications don't really sell stories, and consequently advertising, so these sources will continue to focus on the easy targets.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads