So that shiny IDE is not so new under the covers [modified - added image]
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Member 4227058 wrote:
Just FYI: leading dot is used on Linux for hidden files.
Ok. You're only the 10th person saying that. I admit that I had no clue - I don't use Linux. I know about the .svn folders of course, but their existence only means that svn is using semi-illegal names (and not that since they are used they must automatically be fully legal - if they were, Explorer wouldn't keep you from using them)
harold aptroot wrote:
You're only the 10th person saying that
Sorry, took me some time to write I think. But this whole thing about illegal names... I think it is an old conversion, to use such names for computer-generated files like hidden settings, etc. Java coders use it, I think, out of Linux habits. We started the thread with VS - so it seems VS uses the same practice for some debug data it hides on disk - why else it treats any file that starts with dot as its own debug... whatever? So MS uses it, and does not consider illegal. I think it is well in MS habit, to make tools a bit too clever, and design things to be used exclusively by MS products (I can never see Thumbs.db file in your folders - until I try to examine it with TortoiseSVN, and it asks me "and there is this Thumbs.db that was also added/modified - do you want to add it to source control?") :)
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harold aptroot wrote:
You're only the 10th person saying that
Sorry, took me some time to write I think. But this whole thing about illegal names... I think it is an old conversion, to use such names for computer-generated files like hidden settings, etc. Java coders use it, I think, out of Linux habits. We started the thread with VS - so it seems VS uses the same practice for some debug data it hides on disk - why else it treats any file that starts with dot as its own debug... whatever? So MS uses it, and does not consider illegal. I think it is well in MS habit, to make tools a bit too clever, and design things to be used exclusively by MS products (I can never see Thumbs.db file in your folders - until I try to examine it with TortoiseSVN, and it asks me "and there is this Thumbs.db that was also added/modified - do you want to add it to source control?") :)
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Member 4227058 wrote:
Just FYI: leading dot is used on Linux for hidden files.
Ok. You're only the 10th person saying that. I admit that I had no clue - I don't use Linux. I know about the .svn folders of course, but their existence only means that svn is using semi-illegal names (and not that since they are used they must automatically be fully legal - if they were, Explorer wouldn't keep you from using them)
harold aptroot wrote:
not that since they are used they must automatically be fully legal - if they were, Explorer wouldn't keep you from using them
Let me look at it from a different light. MS writes OS, and ships it with a lot a various tools, like Explorer, control panels, IE, etc. These tools use some files names and patterns as their "reserved" file names. Any tool needs some hidden/standard/whatever files to support it. So from point of view of OS, all the names like "..a.." or "Thumbs.db" would be legal, unless OS manual (MSDN) states otherwise. But the tools like Explorer might just treat them differently. Other tools follow different conventions. Java IDE show Thumbs.db like any other hidden file, for example. But when VS UI is hard-coded never to expect particular files to be anything but what was created but some MS program, it is a ... bug. :-D
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harold aptroot wrote:
not that since they are used they must automatically be fully legal - if they were, Explorer wouldn't keep you from using them
Let me look at it from a different light. MS writes OS, and ships it with a lot a various tools, like Explorer, control panels, IE, etc. These tools use some files names and patterns as their "reserved" file names. Any tool needs some hidden/standard/whatever files to support it. So from point of view of OS, all the names like "..a.." or "Thumbs.db" would be legal, unless OS manual (MSDN) states otherwise. But the tools like Explorer might just treat them differently. Other tools follow different conventions. Java IDE show Thumbs.db like any other hidden file, for example. But when VS UI is hard-coded never to expect particular files to be anything but what was created but some MS program, it is a ... bug. :-D
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Alright - when was the last time *you* accounted for filenames that start with a dot? If you ask me, there's nothing wrong with the IDE (in this instance).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001 -
Today I found another VS bug. Again present in both VS2008 and VS2010 flavors. :sigh: Not that it is a bad bug, it is purely cosmetic, but you would expect a company like MS to be professional and to find and fix a bug in the last 4 or more years (perhaps it does the same on older VS too, I dont have any to test with). Anyways, the bug: Open any file whose (file)name starts with a
.(a full-stop, eg .wtf). :doh: PS: I tried to find a report on the MS Connect site, but found no results. I could report this bug, but like MS I can't be bothered. Update: Here is what I and some of the others are seeing. The tooltip shows the correct text. http://i.imgur.com/zDUKB.png[^]xacc.ide
IronScheme - 1.0 RC 1 - out now!
((λ (x) `(,x ',x)) '(λ (x) `(,x ',x))) The Scheme Programming Language – Fourth Editionmodified on Thursday, September 16, 2010 2:15 PM
So you didn't report the bug - you can't see where anyone else reported the bug - yet you want to complain that it hasn't been fixed? How are they supposed to fix it if noone tells them about it?
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Alright - when was the last time *you* accounted for filenames that start with a dot? If you ask me, there's nothing wrong with the IDE (in this instance).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Alright - when was the last time *you* accounted for filenames that start with a dot? If you ask me, there's nothing wrong with the IDE (in this instance).
I've got to agree. I've NEVER (in 35 years of development) had to deal with any files that are named with nothing but an extension. I'm sure such animals exist in some systems but nothing I've run into in the MS development universe. NO BUG! -Max :D
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Of course, you could just name files like normal people, and avoid this problem altogether.
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
normal people
Not a good website to talk about normal people, mostly developers here...
____________________________________________________________ Be brave little warrior, be VERY brave
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This[^] seems to be a fairly comprehensive article on the subject. Quoting from a point about 25% down the page: 'However, it is acceptable to specify a period as the first character of a name. For example, ".temp".' I've usually treated the string ".temp" as a file in the current directory with the base name "" (empty string) and the extension ".temp". The string ".temp.crap", however, has the base name ".temp" and the extension ".crap". Most Windows API's, shell functions, and even C run-time library functions (
_splitpath()and the like) seem to work this way. I despise applications that don't support the full range of file path syntax. I've seen far too many applications with stupid limits: 32 character paths, no spaces in names, ASCII alphanumerics only in names, and so on. You actually have to work harder to impose those limits, so why bother?Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Interesting to see that MS own documentation says this OK and yet its software says something else, at least its IDE app says something else. If I had to guess I'd say this was just another case of bad assumption on the part of a designer. When making a coding decision they assume something like this... "Why would anyone use a period as the start of a file name. I certainly wouldn't and so neither should any other intelligent person therefore I will assume it’s part of a file name or denotes the end of the file name, the start of the file type/extension". So instead of checking to see what is technically a valid use of a period in a file name, by Microsoft’s own standards, the developer assumes everyone else thinks as he or she does. In the primary asset management software we use I run into a lot and I mean a lot of this type of assumption and it’s a PITA. Thanks for the link to the MS article. It should prove very useful for future dealings with our vendor when this kind of poor assumption with filenames comes into play.
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Alright - when was the last time *you* accounted for filenames that start with a dot? If you ask me, there's nothing wrong with the IDE (in this instance).
.45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"The staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - J. Jystad, 2001Ever heard of ".htaccess"? It's kinda required on Apache servers when you need to modify permissions on a per-directory basis. So in answer to your question: every day. Thankfully, I use a different IDE for web programming. One that handles dots as the first character.
