I'll have what they're drinking
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
by the time IE9 is released lot of corporate world will move to Windows 7.
How about the 'lil fella who loves his XP and want to stick to it?
Yusuf May I help you?
Yusuf wrote:
How about the 'lil fella who loves his XP and want to stick to it?
If he is happy with XP, then he should be happy with the IE7/8 or whatever he using. You don't waste too much resources on making IE9 work for that little guy where the likelihood is that the little guy will not care about it in the first place.
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Didn't you hear? XP is dead. It has less than 65% of the worldwide market share. ;P In all seriousness, I don't mind this. In spite of everyone's opinion (most of whom never used it) Vista wasn't terrible from SP1 on. I upgraded to Win7 before launch and for the one, single XP-centric app that won't run on Win7, I use the built in XP virtual machine. It's better for window & document management, file searching, security, new hardware support, installation, trouble shooting, finding what you need, taskbar implmentation, boot time and networking. And eye candy. I would rather MS be putting their efforts into THAT instead of a 10 year old OS with roots in the 16bit world. Shoot...I guess they got whatever they're drinking into my water supply :laugh:
Exactly my thoughts, you saved me some writing with your post. Also until all major browsers get full HTML5 support the XP will be 12-15 years old. So if I have to choose between creating shining and fast browser which is using the mew graphic technologies and a mediocre one just to support 15 years old OS I’ll choose the former.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Didn't you hear? XP is dead. It has less than 65% of the worldwide market share. ;P In all seriousness, I don't mind this. In spite of everyone's opinion (most of whom never used it) Vista wasn't terrible from SP1 on. I upgraded to Win7 before launch and for the one, single XP-centric app that won't run on Win7, I use the built in XP virtual machine. It's better for window & document management, file searching, security, new hardware support, installation, trouble shooting, finding what you need, taskbar implmentation, boot time and networking. And eye candy. I would rather MS be putting their efforts into THAT instead of a 10 year old OS with roots in the 16bit world. Shoot...I guess they got whatever they're drinking into my water supply :laugh:
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
IE9 doesn't support XP.
They cannot be arsed to work hard any more. Most programmers they've hired are programming is because its where the money is. Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style. You are not longer supposed to be passionate about your work. You are expected to be just a drone putting sentences together and making someone money. I just had a "meeting" with some managers. All they asked is "write more code, care less about the quality", although I care less about their lifestyle than they think I do. I will continue to care about the stuff I write, release only the code that I personally believe has quality.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'm just going to whack him in the head with an empty pizza box
Please include a flywheel from a Ford truck.
NULL
Mechanical wrote:
Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style.
Hey, don't generalize too much... I may not ENJOY what I do like I used to, but I still care a great deal about the code I write. Sure, sometimes I'm forced to write crap because of unreasonable or backward requirements, but I make serious effort to minimize that as much as possible.
Mechanical wrote:
You are not longer supposed to be passionate about your work. You are expected to be just a drone putting sentences together and making someone money.
Who cares about the work? Be passionate about your creations. Everything you create is a part of you, and everything you create reflects on you. Granted, if you're just one person on a large team, mindlessly filling in the blanks in a detailed spec document ("You write a function that parses X and Y and returns Z, then he'll make the one that turns Z into..."), I can see how it'd be pretty hard to care about it... I'm a solo developer, so I wrap my tendrils around the whole thing at once.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Mechanical wrote:
Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style.
Hey, don't generalize too much... I may not ENJOY what I do like I used to, but I still care a great deal about the code I write. Sure, sometimes I'm forced to write crap because of unreasonable or backward requirements, but I make serious effort to minimize that as much as possible.
Mechanical wrote:
You are not longer supposed to be passionate about your work. You are expected to be just a drone putting sentences together and making someone money.
Who cares about the work? Be passionate about your creations. Everything you create is a part of you, and everything you create reflects on you. Granted, if you're just one person on a large team, mindlessly filling in the blanks in a detailed spec document ("You write a function that parses X and Y and returns Z, then he'll make the one that turns Z into..."), I can see how it'd be pretty hard to care about it... I'm a solo developer, so I wrap my tendrils around the whole thing at once.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I still care a great deal about the code I write
Welcome to the 'Olde Farts'! We need all the memebers we can find. [And if you know where my slippers are, it'd ber a great help.]
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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TheyCallMeMrJames wrote:
new hardware support
Then explain why W7 does not properly detect my 2 year old (aka new) screen whereas XP does.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, driver issue? What's the brand? I'd check with the vendor. For the most part, this is one of the areas of improvement: only signed, bit-version-specific drivers will install on their own. It's less "plug-and-pray" and more "click-and-plug-and-play" when you run into the unsigned ones, but after that it's fine. I have a USB video adapter that I had to get the drivers from the manufacturer's web site until about two months ago. When they released the signed drivers, they installed through Windows Update and it works a treat. Edit to say: in re-reading I saw you had 'monitor' there. I'll concede that a monitor should not require drivers. However, I'd still be interested to know your brand/model.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
I still care a great deal about the code I write
Welcome to the 'Olde Farts'! We need all the memebers we can find. [And if you know where my slippers are, it'd ber a great help.]
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Man, I'm not old enough to be an Olde Fart... I turn 30 in a couple months... Actually, I guess in computer geek terms, that's pretty old. Oh well, I'm #%&*(ed.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess, driver issue? What's the brand? I'd check with the vendor. For the most part, this is one of the areas of improvement: only signed, bit-version-specific drivers will install on their own. It's less "plug-and-pray" and more "click-and-plug-and-play" when you run into the unsigned ones, but after that it's fine. I have a USB video adapter that I had to get the drivers from the manufacturer's web site until about two months ago. When they released the signed drivers, they installed through Windows Update and it works a treat. Edit to say: in re-reading I saw you had 'monitor' there. I'll concede that a monitor should not require drivers. However, I'd still be interested to know your brand/model.
It's a Belinea something or other. XP detects it as "just some plug and play thing" and then correctly lists the display modes, W7 detects it as "just some plug and play thing" but then lists less than half of the supported display modes, specifically excluding the best one. Even nvidia's "manual display mode override" thingy doesn't work.
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Also, by the time IE9 is released lot of corporate world will move to Windows 7
A lot of the corporate world is running, and will remain running, on the oldest stable OS that supports their mission critical applications. We have a lot of clients who, dispite a lot of [cattle] proding and insentives, are not moving from XP. As develpers we cannot abandon them and so we need to remaain there. We are just now beginning to move dev onto Weven boxes, but builds and releases are staying XP for the forseable future.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Well the move has just started. Corporate clients usually do not want to go out of date with support. I assume by end of 2011 XP machines will be as rare as Windows 2000 machines are now. So it does not make any sense for a new project such IE9 to sacrifice performance by trying to support XP especially because those on XP can still use IE 8.
modified on Friday, September 17, 2010 12:40 PM
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Yusuf wrote:
So does not support [...] Netscape Naviagtor
#spits on hand# Bets? ;)
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
Bets?
Not for me. I remember using Netscape Navigator 2 on Win 3.11 :)
xacc.ide
IronScheme - 1.0 RC 1 - out now!
((λ (x) `(,x ',x)) '(λ (x) `(,x ',x))) The Scheme Programming Language – Fourth Edition -
Mechanical wrote:
Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style.
Hey, don't generalize too much... I may not ENJOY what I do like I used to, but I still care a great deal about the code I write. Sure, sometimes I'm forced to write crap because of unreasonable or backward requirements, but I make serious effort to minimize that as much as possible.
Mechanical wrote:
You are not longer supposed to be passionate about your work. You are expected to be just a drone putting sentences together and making someone money.
Who cares about the work? Be passionate about your creations. Everything you create is a part of you, and everything you create reflects on you. Granted, if you're just one person on a large team, mindlessly filling in the blanks in a detailed spec document ("You write a function that parses X and Y and returns Z, then he'll make the one that turns Z into..."), I can see how it'd be pretty hard to care about it... I'm a solo developer, so I wrap my tendrils around the whole thing at once.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
I still care a great deal about the code I write.
You are one of the last few remaining lights. Most of what I see is darkness.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Who cares about the work? Be passionate about your creations. Everything you create is a part of you, and everything you create reflects on you.
Damn right! When you look at my code, it is not just code you're looking at, you're looking at me. When you edit my code, it is not just code you're editing, you're editing me.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
if you're just one person on a large team, mindlessly filling in the blanks in a detailed spec document ("You write a function that parses X and Y and returns Z, then he'll make the one that turns Z into..."), I can see how it'd be pretty hard to care about it.
That is what they (the ones in control) are doing. Making the Software industry just like the Food industry. Making things so simple and repetitive that they can hire just about anyone to do the job.
NULL
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
I still care a great deal about the code I write.
You are one of the last few remaining lights. Most of what I see is darkness.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Who cares about the work? Be passionate about your creations. Everything you create is a part of you, and everything you create reflects on you.
Damn right! When you look at my code, it is not just code you're looking at, you're looking at me. When you edit my code, it is not just code you're editing, you're editing me.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
if you're just one person on a large team, mindlessly filling in the blanks in a detailed spec document ("You write a function that parses X and Y and returns Z, then he'll make the one that turns Z into..."), I can see how it'd be pretty hard to care about it.
That is what they (the ones in control) are doing. Making the Software industry just like the Food industry. Making things so simple and repetitive that they can hire just about anyone to do the job.
NULL
Mechanical wrote:
When you edit my code, it is not just code you're editing, you're editing me.
That's a little creepy :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
IE9 doesn't support XP.
They cannot be arsed to work hard any more. Most programmers they've hired are programming is because its where the money is. Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style. You are not longer supposed to be passionate about your work. You are expected to be just a drone putting sentences together and making someone money. I just had a "meeting" with some managers. All they asked is "write more code, care less about the quality", although I care less about their lifestyle than they think I do. I will continue to care about the stuff I write, release only the code that I personally believe has quality.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'm just going to whack him in the head with an empty pizza box
Please include a flywheel from a Ford truck.
NULL
Mechanical wrote:
Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style.
This sounds like a rant about "new" programmers but it is really a rant about "new" business. Businesses don't want you to care about the software you write. They hire you to be a resource so that you can work on whatever they need you to work on. There is a reason that the HR department is called Human Resources. We are just another dollar sign on the books the same as server or a desk. I am probably what most would call a new programmer (~5yrs experience). I am not paid to care about the software I write and I am not paid to think about work after I leave the office. If I was paid to do that, then I would see some benefit if the software I write makes the company more money than they expect it to. I was hired to do a 9-5 programming job and I do it well (actually, I do it 7:30-5 but meh). Just because I don't live my life for a company doesn't make me a bad programmer...in fact, it makes me a good person and a good husband (and someday it will make me a good father). My work doesn't define who I am and that is exactly what makes me good at my job. It allows me to be flexible and that is exactly what I am paid to do.
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It's a Belinea something or other. XP detects it as "just some plug and play thing" and then correctly lists the display modes, W7 detects it as "just some plug and play thing" but then lists less than half of the supported display modes, specifically excluding the best one. Even nvidia's "manual display mode override" thingy doesn't work.
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Mechanical wrote:
When you edit my code, it is not just code you're editing, you're editing me.
That's a little creepy :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Ian Shlasko wrote:
That's a little creepy
I guess you're not a Trekky after all. Five points for those who can correctly guess where I got it from. :)
NULL
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Well the move has just started. Corporate clients usually do not want to go out of date with support. I assume by end of 2011 XP machines will be as rare as Windows 2000 machines are now. So it does not make any sense for a new project such IE9 to sacrifice performance by trying to support XP especially because those on XP can still use IE 8.
modified on Friday, September 17, 2010 12:40 PM
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
those on XP can still use IE 9.
Are you sure about that? Most others are saying XP will not run IE9.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
That's a little creepy
I guess you're not a Trekky after all. Five points for those who can correctly guess where I got it from. :)
NULL
The TNG episode where Geordi makes a hologram of the woman who designed the Enterprise's warp drive? It's still creepy :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
those on XP can still use IE 9.
Are you sure about that? Most others are saying XP will not run IE9.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
He obviously meant IE8 :)
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
those on XP can still use IE 9.
Are you sure about that? Most others are saying XP will not run IE9.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Sorry, typo :-O
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Mechanical wrote:
Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style.
This sounds like a rant about "new" programmers but it is really a rant about "new" business. Businesses don't want you to care about the software you write. They hire you to be a resource so that you can work on whatever they need you to work on. There is a reason that the HR department is called Human Resources. We are just another dollar sign on the books the same as server or a desk. I am probably what most would call a new programmer (~5yrs experience). I am not paid to care about the software I write and I am not paid to think about work after I leave the office. If I was paid to do that, then I would see some benefit if the software I write makes the company more money than they expect it to. I was hired to do a 9-5 programming job and I do it well (actually, I do it 7:30-5 but meh). Just because I don't live my life for a company doesn't make me a bad programmer...in fact, it makes me a good person and a good husband (and someday it will make me a good father). My work doesn't define who I am and that is exactly what makes me good at my job. It allows me to be flexible and that is exactly what I am paid to do.
kinar wrote:
I am not paid to care about the software I write and I am not paid to think about work after I leave the office. If I was paid to do that, then I would see some benefit if the software I write makes the company more money than they expect it to. I was hired to do a 9-5 programming job and I do it well (actually, I do it 7:30-5 but meh). Just because I don't live my life for a company doesn't make me a bad programmer...in fact, it makes me a good person and a good husband (and someday it will make me a good father). My work doesn't define who I am and that is exactly what makes me good at my job. It allows me to be flexible and that is exactly what I am paid to do.
See my other reply:
Mechanical wrote:
That is what they (the ones in control) are doing. Making the Software industry just like the Food industry. Making things so simple and repetitive that they can hire just about anyone to do the job.
I guess you will soon become the coding cousin of the burger-flipper. You will be hired to do just one job, and nothing else. You will be trained not to think about it, not to get passionate about it. Just wear your suit and tie and report to the manager in charge who will assign you to a table serve a customer that day. You represent the downfall of the Programming community. X|
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