I'll have what they're drinking
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
That's a little creepy
I guess you're not a Trekky after all. Five points for those who can correctly guess where I got it from. :)
NULL
The TNG episode where Geordi makes a hologram of the woman who designed the Enterprise's warp drive? It's still creepy :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Well the move has just started. Corporate clients usually do not want to go out of date with support. I assume by end of 2011 XP machines will be as rare as Windows 2000 machines are now. So it does not make any sense for a new project such IE9 to sacrifice performance by trying to support XP especially because those on XP can still use IE 8.
modified on Friday, September 17, 2010 12:40 PM
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
those on XP can still use IE 9.
Are you sure about that? Most others are saying XP will not run IE9.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
those on XP can still use IE 9.
Are you sure about that? Most others are saying XP will not run IE9.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
He obviously meant IE8 :)
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
those on XP can still use IE 9.
Are you sure about that? Most others are saying XP will not run IE9.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Sorry, typo :-O
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Mechanical wrote:
Gone are the days when all nighters were the norm and you actually cared about what you worked on. Now it is just a bunch of copy-paste artists making a living, working 9-5, wearing suits and tie and not giving a f*** about the software they are working on. Caring about the software has gone out of fashion and out of style.
This sounds like a rant about "new" programmers but it is really a rant about "new" business. Businesses don't want you to care about the software you write. They hire you to be a resource so that you can work on whatever they need you to work on. There is a reason that the HR department is called Human Resources. We are just another dollar sign on the books the same as server or a desk. I am probably what most would call a new programmer (~5yrs experience). I am not paid to care about the software I write and I am not paid to think about work after I leave the office. If I was paid to do that, then I would see some benefit if the software I write makes the company more money than they expect it to. I was hired to do a 9-5 programming job and I do it well (actually, I do it 7:30-5 but meh). Just because I don't live my life for a company doesn't make me a bad programmer...in fact, it makes me a good person and a good husband (and someday it will make me a good father). My work doesn't define who I am and that is exactly what makes me good at my job. It allows me to be flexible and that is exactly what I am paid to do.
kinar wrote:
I am not paid to care about the software I write and I am not paid to think about work after I leave the office. If I was paid to do that, then I would see some benefit if the software I write makes the company more money than they expect it to. I was hired to do a 9-5 programming job and I do it well (actually, I do it 7:30-5 but meh). Just because I don't live my life for a company doesn't make me a bad programmer...in fact, it makes me a good person and a good husband (and someday it will make me a good father). My work doesn't define who I am and that is exactly what makes me good at my job. It allows me to be flexible and that is exactly what I am paid to do.
See my other reply:
Mechanical wrote:
That is what they (the ones in control) are doing. Making the Software industry just like the Food industry. Making things so simple and repetitive that they can hire just about anyone to do the job.
I guess you will soon become the coding cousin of the burger-flipper. You will be hired to do just one job, and nothing else. You will be trained not to think about it, not to get passionate about it. Just wear your suit and tie and report to the manager in charge who will assign you to a table serve a customer that day. You represent the downfall of the Programming community. X|
NULL
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
In the meantime, whatever the MS management is drinking, I'll have two, please.
Since they rarely, if ever, learn from their multitudinous snafus I can only assume it is Milk of Amnesia[^].
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Mmmmmm... ambrosia! Super-size mine, please... :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
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There's a big fuss being made over IE9. And perhaps they deserve it. They've come up with an astonishing and novel way to make their software run faster. They simply tell users to buy a faster box. For the record, I just can't get excited about browsers but like Viagra ads, they're a part of everyday life. At least the latter promises something enjoyable. As I'm sure you all know, IE9 doesn't support XP. Firefox does. Chrome does. Hell, even that funky tree hugging Apple browser does. I made a good living off of MS technologies and don't feel like learning a whole new religion to maintain my power over the small electronic boxes that seem to be taking over the household (the refrigerator has taken to whimpering and scooting away from the ethernet port). Even so, you have to wonder when someone will decide that it's time to just shoot MS in the head and put that lumbering, incompetent, dysfunctional collection of middle managers out of its misery. I swear, the first MS guy I hear whining about IE losing market share, I'm just going to whack him in the head with an empty pizza box. In the meantime, whatever the MS management is drinking, I'll have two, please.
Christopher Duncan
www.PracticalUSA.com
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes
Copywriting ServicesMaybe it's a clever way to keep IE6-8 relevant and prevent the adoption of HTML5. If a large portion of your market is still running those old browsers which do not support HTML5 then can you really embrace all that new technology?
Todd Smith
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They have drivers, but I never installed one for XP (and I didn't let Windows Update do it either) so why do I need one on W7? This is also the only proper screen I could get, it's very hard these days. And no indeed, but this is just one of the problems. I had to make substantial modifications to W7 to make it workable. It's as if W7 grudgingly allows me to use my computer, instead of the other way around. I'll try that thingy you linked to after dinner.
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kinar wrote:
I am not paid to care about the software I write and I am not paid to think about work after I leave the office. If I was paid to do that, then I would see some benefit if the software I write makes the company more money than they expect it to. I was hired to do a 9-5 programming job and I do it well (actually, I do it 7:30-5 but meh). Just because I don't live my life for a company doesn't make me a bad programmer...in fact, it makes me a good person and a good husband (and someday it will make me a good father). My work doesn't define who I am and that is exactly what makes me good at my job. It allows me to be flexible and that is exactly what I am paid to do.
See my other reply:
Mechanical wrote:
That is what they (the ones in control) are doing. Making the Software industry just like the Food industry. Making things so simple and repetitive that they can hire just about anyone to do the job.
I guess you will soon become the coding cousin of the burger-flipper. You will be hired to do just one job, and nothing else. You will be trained not to think about it, not to get passionate about it. Just wear your suit and tie and report to the manager in charge who will assign you to a table serve a customer that day. You represent the downfall of the Programming community. X|
NULL
Mechanical wrote:
I guess you will soon become the coding cousin of the burger-flipper. You will be hired to do just one job, and nothing else. You will be trained not to think about it, not to get passionate about it. Just wear your suit and tie and report to the manager in charge who will assign you to a table serve a customer that day.You represent the downfall of the Programming community.
Hardly. I train myself, not the company I work for. My interests expand far beyond the work I do. And for that matter, my skillset expands far beyond programming. Not spending every hour of my day working on the work project that I currently am working on is what makes me infinitely employable beyond most other software developers. I will never be typecast into a single role because I have the hours in my day to expand beyond the needs for my job.
Mechanical wrote:
You represent the downfall of the Programming community
I would argue that I am the savior of the Programming community. I am making it so that we can make quality software AND lead quality lives. Companies do not fail because of programming. They fail either becuase the manager doesn't understand the business or because the business wasn't feasible to start with. If a business requires a programmer to eat, breathe, and "live" code, then the business model is flawed.
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They have drivers, but I never installed one for XP (and I didn't let Windows Update do it either) so why do I need one on W7? This is also the only proper screen I could get, it's very hard these days. And no indeed, but this is just one of the problems. I had to make substantial modifications to W7 to make it workable. It's as if W7 grudgingly allows me to use my computer, instead of the other way around. I'll try that thingy you linked to after dinner.
It sounds like your issue is something different, but I've ran into issues with W7 detecting monitors correctly over VGA cables that weren't attached when I booted. Off hand I don't recall if I managed to find a workaround for that or not (haven't tried hooking my work laptop to my home LCD since). Edit: IIRC I did manage to fix it after installing newer drivers for the quadro gpu in the laptop, although what GPU drivers should have to do with what resolutions the monitor offers...
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
modified on Friday, September 17, 2010 3:50 PM
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
I still care a great deal about the code I write.
You are one of the last few remaining lights. Most of what I see is darkness.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Who cares about the work? Be passionate about your creations. Everything you create is a part of you, and everything you create reflects on you.
Damn right! When you look at my code, it is not just code you're looking at, you're looking at me. When you edit my code, it is not just code you're editing, you're editing me.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
if you're just one person on a large team, mindlessly filling in the blanks in a detailed spec document ("You write a function that parses X and Y and returns Z, then he'll make the one that turns Z into..."), I can see how it'd be pretty hard to care about it.
That is what they (the ones in control) are doing. Making the Software industry just like the Food industry. Making things so simple and repetitive that they can hire just about anyone to do the job.
NULL
Mechanical wrote:
Damn right! When you look at my code, it is not just code you're looking at, you're looking at me. When you edit my code, it is not just code you're editing, you're editing me.
Geez man, you need to find some hobby! Preferably a hobby with big boobs!
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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It sounds like your issue is something different, but I've ran into issues with W7 detecting monitors correctly over VGA cables that weren't attached when I booted. Off hand I don't recall if I managed to find a workaround for that or not (haven't tried hooking my work laptop to my home LCD since). Edit: IIRC I did manage to fix it after installing newer drivers for the quadro gpu in the laptop, although what GPU drivers should have to do with what resolutions the monitor offers...
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
modified on Friday, September 17, 2010 3:50 PM
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I tried hard to understand what your rant is about. The people at Microsoft made a good choice by not supporting XP. Why waste time on developing using a LCD when you can develop something "performant" using latest technologies. The competition from other browsers got tough especially in terms of performance and I think IE9 will beat all of them. Finally, it will be possible to have faster HTML apps on IE. Also, by the time IE9 is released lot of corporate world will move to Windows 7.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
The competition from other browsers got tough especially in terms of performance and I think IE9 will beat all of them.
Ummmm.... the competition all made blazing fast, standards based browsers that DO support XP. The fact that Microsoft didn't speaks volumes (to those that care to listen).
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Also, by the time IE9 is released lot of corporate world will move to Windows 7.
Doubtful. Unless the economy picks up dramatically business will be using XP for a few more years.
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
The competition from other browsers got tough especially in terms of performance and I think IE9 will beat all of them.
Ummmm.... the competition all made blazing fast, standards based browsers that DO support XP. The fact that Microsoft didn't speaks volumes (to those that care to listen).
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Also, by the time IE9 is released lot of corporate world will move to Windows 7.
Doubtful. Unless the economy picks up dramatically business will be using XP for a few more years.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ummmm.... the competition all made blazing fast, standards based browsers that DO support XP. The fact that Microsoft didn't speaks volumes (to those that care to listen).
IF you want to go back in time and convince MS to port DX10 to XP be my guest, this is the technical showstopper for backporting IE9. The GPU accelerated 2D DX component wasn't created until DX10. Anyone wanting to do GPU acceleration in windows has to choose between: 0) Working the GPU drivers directly (*gag*). 1) Doing 2D graphics using using DX9 3d methods (kludgy). 2) Use OpenGL (I suspect this is what FF4.0 is doing, but hell will freeze over before it's used in Redmond). 3) Developing a non-GPU accelerated rendering engine in parallel to the DX10 one. (Goes against having an app behave the same on all platforms.) 4) Dropping XP support.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Ummmm.... the competition all made blazing fast, standards based browsers that DO support XP. The fact that Microsoft didn't speaks volumes (to those that care to listen).
IF you want to go back in time and convince MS to port DX10 to XP be my guest, this is the technical showstopper for backporting IE9. The GPU accelerated 2D DX component wasn't created until DX10. Anyone wanting to do GPU acceleration in windows has to choose between: 0) Working the GPU drivers directly (*gag*). 1) Doing 2D graphics using using DX9 3d methods (kludgy). 2) Use OpenGL (I suspect this is what FF4.0 is doing, but hell will freeze over before it's used in Redmond). 3) Developing a non-GPU accelerated rendering engine in parallel to the DX10 one. (Goes against having an app behave the same on all platforms.) 4) Dropping XP support.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
- Doing what Firefox, Google, Opera and Apple did and create a fast, standards based cross platform browser that isn't dependent on MS specific technologies. Seriously... MS decided to do the DX10 one knowing full well they wouldn't make an XP version. They can't fall back on it after the fact as an excuse. Disclaimer: I personally don't care if IE9 works on XP or not. At work (where I use XP) I don't do any surfing that requires much of a browser and the competition is more than adequate. At home... MS has chosen not to port their browsers to my preferred OS.
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Well the move has just started. Corporate clients usually do not want to go out of date with support. I assume by end of 2011 XP machines will be as rare as Windows 2000 machines are now. So it does not make any sense for a new project such IE9 to sacrifice performance by trying to support XP especially because those on XP can still use IE 8.
modified on Friday, September 17, 2010 12:40 PM
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That all sounds great. I can't fathom, though, what is in the operating system that will allow all this new performance. Cheers, Drew.
Drew Stainton wrote:
what is in the operating system that will allow all this new performance.
This: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd370990(VS.85).aspx[^]
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
The competition from other browsers got tough especially in terms of performance and I think IE9 will beat all of them.
Ummmm.... the competition all made blazing fast, standards based browsers that DO support XP. The fact that Microsoft didn't speaks volumes (to those that care to listen).
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Also, by the time IE9 is released lot of corporate world will move to Windows 7.
Doubtful. Unless the economy picks up dramatically business will be using XP for a few more years.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Doubtful. Unless the economy picks up dramatically business will be using XP for a few more years.
Most of the corporate customers are already in support/maintenance contract with Microsoft and they do not have to pay extra in software at least. Almost all the companies I work with started the windows 7 and Office 2010 upgrade process about 2 months back. The reason I know this is because I get flooded with emails asking wither muy software will work with Windows 7 and Office 2010.
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- Doing what Firefox, Google, Opera and Apple did and create a fast, standards based cross platform browser that isn't dependent on MS specific technologies. Seriously... MS decided to do the DX10 one knowing full well they wouldn't make an XP version. They can't fall back on it after the fact as an excuse. Disclaimer: I personally don't care if IE9 works on XP or not. At work (where I use XP) I don't do any surfing that requires much of a browser and the competition is more than adequate. At home... MS has chosen not to port their browsers to my preferred OS.
It all makes perfect business sense, why care about building a software for a soon to be out dated OS using LCD technologies when yo can clean up and rewrite using better technology and produce better software.
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Doubtful. Unless the economy picks up dramatically business will be using XP for a few more years.
Most of the corporate customers are already in support/maintenance contract with Microsoft and they do not have to pay extra in software at least. Almost all the companies I work with started the windows 7 and Office 2010 upgrade process about 2 months back. The reason I know this is because I get flooded with emails asking wither muy software will work with Windows 7 and Office 2010.