Old Windows
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"This is just like Old Windows!" was what one of my senior programmers had to say when i tried showing him some stuff on Unix. He was of course talking about the Command Prompt/DOS. He is also one of those who still goes to the 'File' menu, searches for 'Save' instead of 'Ctrl + S'. I've met quite a few people who are good programmers but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer. How is that possible? :omg:
I are n00b.
I use the mouse a LOT and I’m not a good typist, but that have never been a problem for me, though it could be a little disadvantage when you are working on the client’s site. Once one of the guys working for our client looked at me and said something like “Wow, I’ve never thought that the programmers are using a mouse!”
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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No not at all wfw has a good little O/S before I moved to NT.
Two heads are better than one.
Norm .net wrote:
No not at all wfw has a good little O/S before I moved to NT.
It was a good little DOS GUI + Excel. :)
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Perhaps he just doesn't want to bother with remembering keystroke combinations to perform UI interactions for which he can use the mouse. If he didn't know how the UI worked, he wouldn't know to go to the File menu to find Save. I don't normally use Ctrl-S to save files because it's my habit to click the "Save" toolbar button; however, I nearly always use Ctrl-C/Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V for copy/cut/paste operations, again because that's the habit I've developed. Keyboard shortcuts are only faster once they become second nature.
Sorry, but UI's are ruined by bad programmers. If you don't understanding what you are doing, can you actually produce a good piece of work? UI is not simple. Making it look good is lot harder then wiring up half a dozen controls on a form and hoping for the best.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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"This is just like Old Windows!" was what one of my senior programmers had to say when i tried showing him some stuff on Unix. He was of course talking about the Command Prompt/DOS. He is also one of those who still goes to the 'File' menu, searches for 'Save' instead of 'Ctrl + S'. I've met quite a few people who are good programmers but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer. How is that possible? :omg:
I are n00b.
SinghUlarity... wrote:
How is that possible?
I blame the mouse. It shuts off 90% of the brain. Marc
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"This is just like Old Windows!" was what one of my senior programmers had to say when i tried showing him some stuff on Unix. He was of course talking about the Command Prompt/DOS. He is also one of those who still goes to the 'File' menu, searches for 'Save' instead of 'Ctrl + S'. I've met quite a few people who are good programmers but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer. How is that possible? :omg:
I are n00b.
Funnier as the day that I asked one of my partners (if a sales person can be called like that ;P ) during a presentation of a sw piece, that she should rename the file to be used during the demo, because we were using her fancy Win7 new laptop, what did she did?
ren d:\UsedFile.txt Unused.txt
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SinghUlarity... wrote:
but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer.
There are plenty of grandpas who are quite comfortable using computers (in my case for 45 years). I don't claim to be an expert but nor do I deride youngsters who cannot hand punch their name onto a Hollerith card.
Just say 'NO' to evaluated arguments for diadic functions! Ash
I definitely meant my grandpa types who think pressing the power on button is knowing computers :rolleyes:
I are n00b.
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I definitely meant my grandpa types who think pressing the power on button is knowing computers :rolleyes:
I are n00b.
SinghUlarity... wrote:
grandpa types who think pressing the power on button is knowing computers
Well there is no shortage of young people with the same view. Just take a look at some of the questions posted here every day.
Just say 'NO' to evaluated arguments for diadic functions! Ash
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"This is just like Old Windows!" was what one of my senior programmers had to say when i tried showing him some stuff on Unix. He was of course talking about the Command Prompt/DOS. He is also one of those who still goes to the 'File' menu, searches for 'Save' instead of 'Ctrl + S'. I've met quite a few people who are good programmers but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer. How is that possible? :omg:
I are n00b.
SinghUlarity... wrote:
How is that possible?
If it worked in 1960, and it still works now, why change? ;P
Will Rogers never met me.
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"This is just like Old Windows!" was what one of my senior programmers had to say when i tried showing him some stuff on Unix. He was of course talking about the Command Prompt/DOS. He is also one of those who still goes to the 'File' menu, searches for 'Save' instead of 'Ctrl + S'. I've met quite a few people who are good programmers but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer. How is that possible? :omg:
I are n00b.
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Sorry H, but if the guy's a UI prog-bod, he'd better know the way the UI works or else he's a sh!t programmer.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Programmers shouldn't build UIs.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
Programmers shouldn't build UIs.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah HimangoJudah Himango wrote:
Programmers shouldn't build UIs.
And there's me, earning a living from it for twenty years...
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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Sorry H, but if the guy's a UI prog-bod, he'd better know the way the UI works or else he's a sh!t programmer.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
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Sorry, but UI's are ruined by bad programmers. If you don't understanding what you are doing, can you actually produce a good piece of work? UI is not simple. Making it look good is lot harder then wiring up half a dozen controls on a form and hoping for the best.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
I agree with you. I've seen some eye-gougingly horrible UI's (both commercial and in-house) produced by people who obviously don't get it. But how does that relate to the original post? It's possible (perhaps even probable!) that I'm just impossibly dense today but I fail to see how a guy not using certain accelerators means that he doesn't understand the UI. Thanks, by the way, for distracting me from work! I owe you one! :-D
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Judah Himango wrote:
Programmers shouldn't build UIs.
And there's me, earning a living from it for twenty years...
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. or "Drink. Get drunk. Fall over." - P O'H
Oh, programmers (non-designers) can do it. It's just that they shouldn't. If you've been building UIs successfully for 20 years, I suggest you might have a bit of designer in you. :)
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon
Judah Himango -
SinghUlarity... wrote:
but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer.
There are plenty of grandpas who are quite comfortable using computers (in my case for 45 years). I don't claim to be an expert but nor do I deride youngsters who cannot hand punch their name onto a Hollerith card.
Just say 'NO' to evaluated arguments for diadic functions! Ash
OK, but it is fairly late now, so, please, take your cup of warm milk and
gotobed. --Carlo The Grandpa. :)If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
"This is just like Old Windows!" was what one of my senior programmers had to say when i tried showing him some stuff on Unix. He was of course talking about the Command Prompt/DOS. He is also one of those who still goes to the 'File' menu, searches for 'Save' instead of 'Ctrl + S'. I've met quite a few people who are good programmers but still seem like grandpas when dealing with the Computer. How is that possible? :omg:
I are n00b.
SinghUlarity... wrote:
seem like grandpas
Some of us ARE grandpas and still whip your skinny assed butt. From this you can derive that those of us who are age challenged tend to be larger and grumpier. Bloody hell I have enough trouble keeping up with the new tech I need to assimilate just to do the job I want to do, buggered if I am interested in chasing down the latest way to use the IDE/office. One of the benefits of lording it over the junior programmers is that every now and then (regularly) they will use a shortcut and you can snaffle the idea without investing the time in getting there.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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I use Alt + F, S so I must be an old fart for using the File Menu. To be honest I must sound like Luddite but I think there are way too many short-cuts. I am a sloppy typist and there is nothing I hate more than accidentally hitting some obscure key combination that completely alters my current workspace.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
I use Alt + F, S so I must be an old fart for using the File Menu.
Second that. Old habits are hard to break! Plus Ctrl+S strains my pinky. :)
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on! Code, follow, or get out of the way.
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Funnier as the day that I asked one of my partners (if a sales person can be called like that ;P ) during a presentation of a sw piece, that she should rename the file to be used during the demo, because we were using her fancy Win7 new laptop, what did she did?
ren d:\UsedFile.txt Unused.txt
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Hold your tongue, Grasshopper. Command-line-fu can be most powerful, and is a vanishing art.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Perhaps he just doesn't want to bother with remembering keystroke combinations to perform UI interactions for which he can use the mouse. If he didn't know how the UI worked, he wouldn't know to go to the File menu to find Save. I don't normally use Ctrl-S to save files because it's my habit to click the "Save" toolbar button; however, I nearly always use Ctrl-C/Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V for copy/cut/paste operations, again because that's the habit I've developed. Keyboard shortcuts are only faster once they become second nature.
I think personally part of it is a shift over time on from primarily using key combinations ( i know in the 90's that was all I really used to play Civ), to more accurate Mice, which have really been driving the AI design, have you ever tried to Surf the web using just a keyboard...? And I would argue this will happen again with touch pads/devices, which don't have an OnMouseOver capability! As new technologies come out younger generations adopt them first and as they mature those technologies "mature" with them, until they come up with a different way of doing it.. eventually the Neural interface will eclipse touch, mouse and keyboard. :doh: yet during that transition people will talk about how it doesn't feel like they are "working" because they don't have that tactile experience (case in point Fighter jet control sticks, which are sensitive enough to handle all user input over a couple square inches, but which needed to be more mobile so that pilots could feel that they were having an impact on the jet :omg: ) --
Marc A. Brown wrote:
doesn't want to bother with remembering keystroke combinations to perform UI interactions for which he can use the mouse
On this note, there is no (at least none that I'm aware) Actual Standard for how keystroke combinations should function in a program... if there were then maybe this would be more widely adopted, but unless your a power user of a particular app why bother remembering hundreds of one to many mappings of Ctrl-7? {arbitrary example}:confused:
I'd blame it on the Brain farts.. But let's be honest, it really is more like a Methane factory between my ears some days then it is anything else... -"The conversations he was having with himself were becoming ominous."-.. On the radio...
