Happy Birthday Google
-
...with the main side effect IMO of making it easier for technically clueless people to take on programming work, and students to cheat on their homework... Hmm, and this place here did not help at all?
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
This place, as you put it, is here to help reputable professionals and motivated hobbyists do their jobs. It is not here to provide a free ride to shiftless morons who'd rather cheat their way through life than work.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
To add to Mark's point - one thing that you see a lot in the forums here is somebody voting you down because you don't supply them with the code to solve their problem. They seem to labour under the misapprehsion that this is rentacoder, and take it as a personal affront that you don't do their thinking for them.
Hmm .. If some one votes down an article just b'cause the author has not responded and provided them snippets, it is unacceptable. However, I was just advocating that it is perfectly fine to use Google as tool to gain knowledge and learn new things, as everyone is not equally intelligent and experienced. Hence, it would be unfair to call the people as inefficient, clueless and disintrested.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
Christian and Mark both eloquently point out that Google has lowered the barrier to entry to such a point that people who are eminently unsuited to a programming job are actually getting employed as coders. A lot of it is to do with the outsourcing culture, where companies have effectively become bodyshoppers, with people becoming commodities and not skilled workers. Imagine if Google offered access to information on how to perform brain surgery - would you like to see that in the hands of the unwashed masses? I know I wouldn't.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
-
Christian and Mark both eloquently point out that Google has lowered the barrier to entry to such a point that people who are eminently unsuited to a programming job are actually getting employed as coders. A lot of it is to do with the outsourcing culture, where companies have effectively become bodyshoppers, with people becoming commodities and not skilled workers. Imagine if Google offered access to information on how to perform brain surgery - would you like to see that in the hands of the unwashed masses? I know I wouldn't.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
True but programming has a different skill set. After all, it's not brain surgery.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
-
Christian and Mark both eloquently point out that Google has lowered the barrier to entry to such a point that people who are eminently unsuited to a programming job are actually getting employed as coders. A lot of it is to do with the outsourcing culture, where companies have effectively become bodyshoppers, with people becoming commodities and not skilled workers. Imagine if Google offered access to information on how to perform brain surgery - would you like to see that in the hands of the unwashed masses? I know I wouldn't.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
outsourcing culture, where companies have effectively become bodyshoppers, with people becoming commodities and not skilled workers.
Here it is (I was anticipating this response), so you are fine if a dumb ass in UK, Canada or US who cannot even create a web page is paid heavily to support application with less than one ticket per week. However, you have issues when the same work is done lot cheaper in India, Vietnam, Philippines or China. I object the use of phrase - "outsourcing culture". A good developer is a good developer, he can be in any part of the world. Similarly, a bad developer is a bad developer and (s)he should not be tagged based on his work location or ethnicity.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
-
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
You don't help out much in the forums do you?
I do, however, may not be as much as you. However, I myself have posted both questions and answers (relatively less) on several forums including few products which we use in our project. For example, I am using a third-party tool in my application, it is not possible for me to know every possible function/feature of the tool(s) and then only proceed for the coding phase. Whenever, we procure a tool, we check for few features which we need, do check if any other team in the organization has used the features with tool et al. Now, in the midst of coding if I am stuck at some point; I don't feel that it is crime to search on the net or post on the forum of the tool (as most of the licensed tools provide one yr priority support) so that we can get ideas and proceed with the deliverables.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
Sushant Joshi wrote:
Whenever, we procure a tool, we check for few features which we need, do check if any other team in the organization has used the features with tool et al. Now, in the midst of coding if I am stuck at some point; I don't feel that it is crime to search on the net or post on the forum of the tool (as most of the licensed tools provide one yr priority support) so that we can get ideas and proceed with the deliverables.
Nobody suggested that you shouldn't search for help. Only an idiot would attempt to keep banging away at a problem without seeing if somebody else has encountered and solved a problem before. The problem occurs when somebody asks for an entire application/algorithm without attempting to do any work on it.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
-
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
outsourcing culture, where companies have effectively become bodyshoppers, with people becoming commodities and not skilled workers.
Here it is (I was anticipating this response), so you are fine if a dumb ass in UK, Canada or US who cannot even create a web page is paid heavily to support application with less than one ticket per week. However, you have issues when the same work is done lot cheaper in India, Vietnam, Philippines or China. I object the use of phrase - "outsourcing culture". A good developer is a good developer, he can be in any part of the world. Similarly, a bad developer is a bad developer and (s)he should not be tagged based on his work location or ethnicity.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
Sushant Joshi wrote:
Here it is (I was anticipating this response), so you are fine if a dumb ass in UK, Canada or US who cannot even create a web page is paid heavily to support application with less than one ticket per week. However, you have issues when the same work is done lot cheaper in India, Vietnam, Philippines or China.
Get off your high horse - stop imagining racism where none exists. At no point did I target any nation - I'm one of the few here who doesn't (you might actually want to check my posts on this topic). I have been in the industry a very long time, and bodyshopping/outsourcing predates getting people from another country involved - I'm very careful not to suggest otherwise; outsourcing used to be a company hiring a consultancy to come in and cram a project with people and then getting hammered by unskilled devs who haven't got a clue. The culture was always, bring in a number of skilled developers for the first month or two of a project, and then replace them with any numpty who happened to walk by the office door regardless of skillset. Now, maybe you want to apologise - I'm bloody angry with you right now. [Edit]The term you should find objectionable is offshoring[/Edit]
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx
modified on Monday, September 27, 2010 7:22 AM
-
Christian and Mark both eloquently point out that Google has lowered the barrier to entry to such a point that people who are eminently unsuited to a programming job are actually getting employed as coders. A lot of it is to do with the outsourcing culture, where companies have effectively become bodyshoppers, with people becoming commodities and not skilled workers. Imagine if Google offered access to information on how to perform brain surgery - would you like to see that in the hands of the unwashed masses? I know I wouldn't.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Imagine if Google offered access to information on how to perform brain surgery
I just Googled it -- well worth the effort!
SNED NIFEZ PLEEZZZ!
-
Sushant Joshi wrote:
Here it is (I was anticipating this response), so you are fine if a dumb ass in UK, Canada or US who cannot even create a web page is paid heavily to support application with less than one ticket per week. However, you have issues when the same work is done lot cheaper in India, Vietnam, Philippines or China.
Get off your high horse - stop imagining racism where none exists. At no point did I target any nation - I'm one of the few here who doesn't (you might actually want to check my posts on this topic). I have been in the industry a very long time, and bodyshopping/outsourcing predates getting people from another country involved - I'm very careful not to suggest otherwise; outsourcing used to be a company hiring a consultancy to come in and cram a project with people and then getting hammered by unskilled devs who haven't got a clue. The culture was always, bring in a number of skilled developers for the first month or two of a project, and then replace them with any numpty who happened to walk by the office door regardless of skillset. Now, maybe you want to apologise - I'm bloody angry with you right now. [Edit]The term you should find objectionable is offshoring[/Edit]
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Onyx
modified on Monday, September 27, 2010 7:22 AM
Cool .. thanks for providing the background. Appreciate your views.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
-
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
Imagine if Google offered access to information on how to perform brain surgery
I just Googled it -- well worth the effort!
SNED NIFEZ PLEEZZZ!
Cool.:cool:
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
-
Cool .. thanks for providing the background. Appreciate your views.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
I'm sorry I got angry there. It's one of my pet hates - racism of any description.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
-
This place, as you put it, is here to help reputable professionals and motivated hobbyists do their jobs. It is not here to provide a free ride to shiftless morons who'd rather cheat their way through life than work.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Yes, certainly. The problem is, that such people will always exist and try to use anything they can for their purposes. Is Google to blame for that? Or 'this place'? And what are the alternatives?
A while ago he asked me what he should have printed on my business cards. I said 'Wizard'. I read books which nobody else understand. Then I do something which nobody understands. After that the computer does something which nobody understands. When asked, I say things about the results which nobody understand. But everybody expects miracles from me on a regular basis. Looks to me like the classical definition of a wizard.
-
I'm sorry I got angry there. It's one of my pet hates - racism of any description.
I have CDO, it's OCD with the letters in the right order; just as they ruddy well should be
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
No sweat sir! I’m sure; you had a good intent in addressing the issue. CP Members come from various locations and cultures and hence, few arguments could be misinterpreted. We are having healthy debates on the forum is a symbol of the popularity of the forum and I’m sure, it would continue to become more and more popular in coming days in developer community. As I mentioned earlier, I sincerely appreciate your views.
Sucess is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.
-
SQL.NET wrote:
Nah, Indians don't mind; have moved to Facebook (finally...)
orkut also made a newer version similar to facebook. :)
What I like about Facebook in comparison to Orkut is its decent and clean interface; with small font size, neatly organized things on the front screen. The current Orkut structure which has updates/birthdays/suggestions, and those takes enormous page area. X| This is just a comparison; and not saying that FB is great... :)
-
So its Google's 12th Birthday, Happy Birthday Google !! May your dream of global domination come true...